I don't know what is going at Lonesome Bull that has caused this action. I do know that if you violate the rules, TPWD will come down on you with a heavy hand. Not tagging or marking deer properly, not keeping current records, bringing deer in from out of state, etc. are all reasons that TPWD will either shut you down or at least not renew your permit.

But let's be clear, the killing of the deer is nothing more than an attempt to regulate the captive deer industry out of business. Let's be clear about something else. CWD has never been found in a captive deer herd in Texas, and to my knowledge has never been found in a captive herd anywhere. (I could be wrong about the last statement). CWD is a "made up" threat by anti-hunting and anti-captive breed deer activists. The science is not there. There are many other diseases that are found in deer that are a much greater threat to the native deer herds. But these activists have found an Achilles Heel. If they can prove that CWD exists in captive herds, something they have been unable to do, they can pass even greater regulations to regulate the captive deer industry out of business.

That is the only reason those 200 deer were killed. And that is the only reason that TPWD has killed other deer herds that have violated some regulations. There are those who would love to find CWD in a captive deer herd. There are even other "sportsman" organization out there who would love to shut down all deer breeding facilities. If this is important to you, you need to be careful which organizations you join and support.

From what I've heard, the ranch was a scam that stole a lot of money from a lot of different groups over the years. The owners of the place, who inherited the ranch, are a bunch of arrogant people who thought they could get away with things.

I don't agree with killing any of the animals and I think the CWD thing is total BS. I totally agree there should be other ways to deal with the animals and I also believe that killing the animals is nothing more than TP&W flexing their muscles.

But the place was an overall rip off and I hope they go out of business

And that's exactly why TPWD went after them. They have no ally's. They were a low hanging fruit. TPWD is desperately trying to find a ranch with CWD. It's absolutely disgusting. He kills one deer in a pen, they kill over 200... and we have people on a "hunting" forum on their side.

Pitiful.

Thats ALOT of backstrap

local corpus news tonight said owner also has previous federal conviction for fraud. He was involved in "cooking" houses and making mold insurance claims in 2002.

http://www.kiiitv.com/category/194871/vi...;autoStart=true

The ignorance of some folks as to what CWD is, where it is, and has been, predominantly found, and the effect it has had on animals confined in high-density confined settings (as well as low-fenced free-ranging settings) is astonishing. Also apparent is the fact that conspiracy-theorists will never go away. I'm glad TPWD, the USWFS, TAHC, and a multitude of other organizations is trying to do what they can to mitigate the CWD situation.

I just want to know why this post is under Exotic hunting?

So far in news coverage I have not see one deer.

You're glad they killed 200 plus deer that didn't need to be killed? Yeah... that's really cool. Where has "high density confined settings" proven by data to spread CWD? Yeah, that's right, it hasn't. EVER.

Sweet GEEZUS, what do some folks use for brains?

And what exactly does TPWD have to do with any of that??? Nothing. Our TPWD has no reason to spend our precious dollars on anything but game violations.

What? Are you under the mistaken concept that it stops at native game?? Really?

No, I have brains.

I guess I'm one of the idiots.... where did CWD come from again, and who was the discovering party?. Also where did CWD show up in Texas and how did it get here?

Hint wasn't deer breeders that have generations of historical health data on their animals. .....

Of course they needed to be killed. The only reason TPWD would be terminating the operation is if deer were undocumented. One of the obvious reasons deer would be undocumented is the chance that deer were illegally introduced to the facility, potentially from a CWD-infected area. The only way to test for CWD is to kill the deer, all of the deer. The first time TPWD didn't take that precaution and a deer was in fact clinical, and thus actively infecting other deer it came in contact with, all hell would break loose and many more people would question why TPWD didn't take a more active approach to slowing the progression of the disease throughout the population. If people didn't learn anything else about the Wisconsin fiasco, once CWD is prevalent in a deer herd, it will always be there.

Of course CWD spreads more rapidly in a high density confined setting. It is a communicable disease. It spreads primarily through animal-to-animal contact. In a confined setting with no possible emigration, the greater the number of animals, the greater the likelihood of contact with another animal. It's a very basic concept typically learned in elementary school, and in terms of CWD, has been verified in many facilities from several states.

I guess the answer to your last question lies not in questioning what folks use for brains, but rather why don't they actively use whatever substance they have up there.

Awesome! Please, enlighten me. Post the data that you have. Post the validated proof of the assumptions you make.

You can't. Because it doesn't exist. I'm calling you out. Post the clinical studies that say deer breeders are causeing CWD to spread. And where in Texas (that has more deer breeders in more confined spaces than any other state) have there been an outbreak of CWD??

C'mon. Let's dance.

Noted..

Really so if a breeder can show documention fron which herds his deer cam from but didn't get a permit or ear tags where lost, etc.... that means an entire herd should be taken down...I'm not just talking about LRB.

Fact is CWD until proven other wise is a natural disease that's been taken through computer models back to the 1920, 40 years after it was discovered in 1960.

How did CWD show up in west tex and southern NM? Or where did it come from? 1920's elk restocking program that covered TX, NM and AZ? And some 90+ years later we are now seeing it? Or its always been there and Yotes are good at disposing of the evidence?


Fact is we will loose more deer and animals from anthrax, Blue tongue etc then we will ever see from cwd.

While we are at it maybe TPWD and THAC commission should kill every deer in the tick fever quartine zone to protect the cattle.

Exactly BoBo. And why didn't TPWD kill all the deer on the 2600 acres if they were really trying to prevent disease?

TPWD is fishing for a golden goose. And whether or not they find it in a breeder pen... we have plenty of folks here willing to accept any factless conjecture that condemns breeding and HF.

What a crock.

I'm not looking to

I'm just wondering if the State of Texas owns the whitetail and in this case the whitetail breeder was not a good steward of the deer he held in trust what else could the TPWD do. They could not just release the deer, if they could, then there would not be a violation in the first place releasing undocumented pen raised deer. Not sure they could load the deer and sell them. Seems like they would then be selling undocumented deer thus violating the very law good deer breeders uphold.

Maybe the TPWD could take over this deer breeding business and take the time to trace the deer back to their undocumented origin... while feeding and caring for the deer.... That seems impossible. Might be some private land issues there as well.

How about doing away with CWD regulation all together, that might solve one issue but not the fact no records were kept under an agreement the deer breeder agreed to uphold when their license was issued.

I too hate to hear about 200 deer being killed because some bad licensed deer breeder is not living by the same TPWD rules as a good quality deer breeders has to. I understand the emotions here just not hearing solutions for this case as it exist today. Not sure what other choices TPWD have under current regulations, but I bet I'm fixing to hear some.

Thanks in advance for the education I'm about to receive.

P.S. Maybe the loss of 200 deer at $2,000 each or a $400,000 loss to the owner gets some point across. KEEP RECORDS.

Good points Sheephunter. But here are the facts as BoBo and I have laid out. Blue Tongue (EHD) and anthrax kill many millions more deer than CWD ever did or ever will. Why in the world would state or fed regulators be as concerned with CWD when the big killers are the previously mentioned?

Because they can "insinuate" that CWD is "introduced". For some reason, govt. agencies believe they can "regulate" the spread of CWD. While absolutely NO evidence exists that they can.

Your points are correct, the state can't be tasked with taking over deer breeding facilities that have been lax in following the ridiculous rules they set forth. Which begs the question, if there is no evidence that the maladies that they are attempting to regulate actually are spread by the methods they are regulating, (and none have ever provent to be), why are they attempting to regulate it?

My personal opinion is that they are a govt entity preserving and promoting their importance and existence.

I'm open to other theories, but I'm not open to people implying that what they are doing has any impact, or can have any impact, on the effect of CWD in wild or captive populations of cervids. Because that simply is not supported by any valid data.

And as I pointed out before, infected animals secrete/produce prions that remain in the soil for many years. Simply testing the soil in this facility would have proven whether or not the animals had CWD.

OR.... They could have followed their own rules and sampled a % of the herd. The only reason they killed the entire herd was to try and find CWD (they are not happy that they haven't in their normal samplings) and use a heavy hand to intimidate breeders.

That is thuggish and un-necessary behavior and we deserve better from our public servants.

I realize I am not near as intelligent as many as I did not go to any institutes of so called "higher learning". So the only way to detect CWD is to kill the animal and test the brain, correct? So if you want to start a deer breeding facility you have to first kill the deer and test them before you get started? I would think that if CWD is so bad that an animal that has it would show some signs of it. The name CWD sounds like if an animal has it is wasting away. A healthy animal looks a lot different than one that is wasting away. Would you not at first test the animals that don't look healthy? I realize the easiest way for the TPWD to handle this is just kill them all.

isn't it true texas has still only ever found 2 cases of CWD? 2...in west texas...in the wild...

Shhh. Facts are irrelevent to folks with an agenda of outlawing fences, breeding, and feeders and are supporting power hungry state and fed agencies.

You do realize that feeder use is regulated in several states on the mistaken assumption that deer spread CWD at feeders (a theory they've tried hard to prove for decades but haven't been able to generate valid data to support).

Also, Sheephunter did make one common mistaken assumption. The deer in those pens were NOT the state's deer. They were bought and paid for by the owner. The state regulates the breeding facility, and controls the release of the animals, but does not own the deer until and if they are released.

They could have done what they do to all deer breeders BTW. The could have put them on a CWD monitor system. OR.. they could have just killed a sample. No need whatsoever for them to kill them all.

I was tempted to state the feeder/cwd thoughts earlier. ... but decided that I'd be called a lair and ignorant for even suggesting that a state would be over zealous and use CWD as a means of regulating their personal thoughts on fair chase ideology.

I just have to laugh when people use the high stocking rates behind a fence when they push CWD spread, yet its not a rarity to see 20plus deer at a feeder or 50 plus deer on a 5 acre oat patch....

This is a great discussion guys. I am enjoying reading. I almost went to this ranch at one time like probably many people on this forum.

I also grew up hunting in Michigan and they are one of the states the rancher speaks of as to not allowing any kind of baiting. The funny thing is you can hunt right next to an apple tree with 50 deer around it but if you move those apples and put them 10 feet away in a pile then it becomes illegal. Pretty lame laws. They go back and forth on allowing baiting. No one really has feeders but every year you see 50 lb bags of sugar beets, carrots, and apples at gas stations all over during hunting season. I liked sugar beets the best.

I know for a fact that CWD has been found at two two ranch/breeding facilities in Missouri and one in Iowa. In each case they have found transference to wild deer. In Minnesota we had an Elk Ranch get it and it transferred to the deer population. If there are no records how can you be sure deer didn't come from an infected facility?