I have been chatting with some gun dealers a few that I have known for 30+ years and they as "old timers" all say the same thing in that they are losing a generation of gun buyers. And what they mean by that is they can't hardly sell any classic weapons any more, the pre 64 Winchesters, early Remingtons, the classic A-5 Brownings, the S&W revolvers, etc... They say that many of the gun buyers "let's say under 40 year olds" are basically only buying the "Black or Plastic" guns as they call em. It seems that the main core of the up and comming gun buyer market has no use for the fine finished stocks and the rich deep blue metal work , the engraving and the fit and finish of the guns of yesterday. I understand the trends and how times change but it makes you wonder what will become of the great guns that many of us grew up using and cherishing because of their beauty as much as their function.

Sad for sure. I'm not under 40 but I'm closer to that than 50. My 2 favourite guns are my Nosler which has a beautiful walnut stock and my old faithful 50 year old Belgian A5 Humpback 3 inch magnum. That being said I also own a some synthetic stock guns with stainless barrels, so I guess I live in both eras.

I also have a crossbow that I removed the synthetic stock on and replaced it with a custom laminated walnut stock.

Picture of the Nosler:



Photo of the xbow:



Sorry can't seem to find any pictures of the A5

Fine with me! I'll take the old school guns at a cheaper price any day!

Well the reality for me is a pretty gun is only going to be a "safe queen". I hunt hard and it takes it's toll on me and my guns. Fact is for me it's function over form and buying one that looks nice is only a temporary state. Soon it will be dinged, scratched and rubbed. And I am much closer to 50 than 40.

oh i don't know.
maybe folks are like me and don't
want to tear up their nicer firearms.
i bought a synthetic benelli to keep
from tearing up my auto 5 and i don't
carry my belgium blr in the bottoms full
of briars and use a synthetic easily
replaceable rifle instead. i also blame
the internet for prices of "classic"
firearms and such for being too high.
folks see one overpriced something on
fleabay or elsewhere and assume they
should get that too. i see a lot of
stuff of different kinds described
as "rare" and "irreplaceable" as a
sales pitch.

i like nice grained wood and a nice
finish as much as anyone until i get it
rained on and get one full of mud and
windblown sand and grit.

That's what I was trying to figure out how to say. The 2 pretty guns I have don't make it into the field. One is a safe queen, and one I only target shoot with. Plus, wood stocked guns are more expensive, and I want I put money into performance, not looks.

as much wood products are sold to
the far east and elsewhere, and
as hard as it'll be to sell a wood
stocked firearm and make a profit,
i'll imagine a wood stocked anything
will be a custom order only for a lot
of domestic firearms manufacturers.
maybe not for another year or two or
three, but i think it will be for sure certain.

I understand that position. My take is I use them all hard - pretty or not. The bow and the Nosler are new so they just aren't showing the wear yet - they will. As long as the wear doesn't cause functional damage I end up liking the dings and scratches as they tell a story - some good stories and some bad - but all worth remembering. I have an old Cooey single shot 22LR with a hardwood stock that I have had since I was 14. Anytime I look at that gun I could tell you the story behind just about every mark on it.

The main issue is most aren't accurate when compared to newer rifles. I like my 94 Winchester, but when you compare it to the accuracy of any new bolt gun, there is no contest.

^^^^^^^

Make a fare comparison. Very few Winchester 94s were close to the accuracy of the bolt actions made at the same time period as the 94. I have wood stocked bolt action rifles over 30 years old that have no issue shooting 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards that are still the way they came from the factory.

I have some synthetic stocked firearms and some wood stocked ones. Some of the most accurate rifles I have ever shot are Wood stocked rifles. There are at least 9 wood stocked rifles in the safe that get used often for hunting that are easily sub MOA shooters. 2 of which are sub 1/2 MOA shooters, both of which are standard factory rifles.

I am a fan of blued guns with walnut stocks with good fit and finish, it is sad to me to see the trend going away from the classic design but that is the way of the world these days plastic seems to rule in lots of peoples minds.

I love the look of a fine blued rifle and wood stock. But it's not something I can take out in the woods hunting. I'd be too afraid of scratches and dings and ruining it. It would be a safe queen for me.

I use my wood stocked guns and only have 1 made of plastic. I have dings and scratches on all of my shooting tools.

I like them all and will get either provided the deal is good. I will easily pick up an A5 provided it's a Belgium and not another 12ga they are one of the most reliable semi I've been around.

What are you smoking? I have 70 year old rifles that will produce tighter groups than most anything you can buy out of s store today. A Winchester 94 is hardly something you want to judge accuracy of an era by.

With that said I think most of the plastic crowd are either lazy or their folks didn't teach them how to properly handle and care for a firearm. I own wood and composite and I take care of both with the utmost of care. Take my 43 year old Mauser Sporter in 6mm Rem, has a beautiful custom walnut stock, and a deep blue barrel. I have been hunting with it for 31 years, since I was 12, and it still looks nearly new. But then again my dad taught me to take care of it, and if I had ever abused it I am sure he would have abused me.

In this throw away society no one cares for anything anymore, truly sad.

I think I represent that generation of folks. I'm 31 now and unlike most of ya'll, I didn't start really shooting until I was about 20.

To me, the number one reason has be said already. It's hard to justify paying near, or sometimes more, for a firearm when a newer version with either a synthetic or plastic such and such can simply do the job as well if not better. Once again, as one who did NOT grow up in the firearms culture, I started my collection from scratch. if I had spent the same funds on older guns then I simply wouldn't have as many guns to shoot.

Now don't get me a wrong, I'm a huge fan-student-whatever you want to call of history, and in particular military history. So there are some historical guns that I know I would love to have in my collection. But everytime it comes down to the moment of truth to put your money where your mouth is, I'm jjst not in a position to spend several hundred on something that i know I shouldn't be shooting.

Take for example my lever gun. I've always wanted a lever gun but I knew I was going to be carrying this thing around on a regular basis. As much as I would have loved an older Winchester or Henry, my modern manufactured Marlin was just cheaper, had better features, and I knew I wasn't going to worry to much about it for what I wanted to do with it.

On a somewhat realted note:
To all old folks, stop saying that "they don't make them like they used to." It's true. They don't! They make them better these days!
No one can convince me that modern machine and manufacturing was better then than it is now because it's not. I'll fully admit that some specifica people's skill sets have been lost over the years, but today's machining techniques and the increased level of precision overall plays a role to increase accuracy of factory made firearms. Not talking about aesthetic appeal, but purely accuracy.

Modern Machining, LOL!!! We can't even reproduce parts for the engine of a Messerschmitt ME-109 with CNC equipment to as tight of tolerances as the originals and the Germans before and during WWII did it by hand!

I'm with KR on rifles. And, Chuck I know what you mean. In pure accuracy of machining nothing replaces a manual machine and a highly skilled machinist. Heck my lathe and milling machine are very manual, no digital anything. My gunsmith does not use anything digital. He centers a barrel, from the bore, to one five hundred thousandth. He showed me a human hair moves the indicator three five hundred thousandths.

But in mass production of rifles I agree the ones made by reputable rifle companies are better than they were 30 years ago. Synthetic stocks don't "move" with the weather, almost all come with a free floated barrel, and factory barrels regularly turn in sub-MOA groups. That was not the norm for older rifles. Tikka rifles are an example of a brand of mass produced rifles that are shockingly accurate, cycle smooth, eject with authority, and have a do-it-yourself adjustable trigger. The new triggers that can be adjusted by a regular man with basic tools are still in infancy stages in the grand scheme of rifles, as another example..

I love the look of fine lumber, but I will say my work horse rifles (3 of them) all wear a custom composite stock.

It is truly unfortunate. Soon people will just give away their model 29's.

I agree. The younger shooters want something new, which I understand fully. They want the new magnums that claims it does it better than the old one. I say it all the time- There's nothing sexy about a 30-06 or 308 Win, but it's the measuring ruler of what everything else is compared to. And it works just fine.

But accuracy of the old guns!! Hummm. If you put a 1960's to 1980's model Remington on a table next to a brand new Remington, I would pick the old one WITHOUT hesitation! No matter what it looked like. The older rifles will easily out shoot the new guns of today, period. I have tested them, I have shot them, I have done many load work up's on some older guns and I was shocked at how well they shot. and they are less temperamental. Several looked like they were truck guns laying on the floor board of a truck and all banged up. But they shot lights out. I had a wood stocked hunting Rem 30-06 from the early 80's that kicked like a mule print just over half inch at 200 yards with my custom ammo. The older rifles will flat out shoot! It's not even funny.

I can see things both ways.

Most of my rifles and shotguns have walnut stocks and I don't own a single all-stainless gun. The rifles that I'm likely to carry while busting through brush wear synthetic stocks but the others wear walnut. I have one particularly nicely stocked rifle and I love to shoot it and have hunted it without putting a mark on it. I can see guns as primarily tools, primarily works of art, and anything in between.

I think that many who just buy a rifle to hunt with are potential converts as fanciers of gun art. All it takes is to heft a beautifully crafted rifle. As an example, when the Model 70 Classics were still relatively new to the scene I went window shopping with the .25-06 on my mind, and stainless/synthetic wasn't on my radar. One shop had a few and the fellow behind the counter was happy to put them in my hands. The first one I looked at was a 77 Mk.II, and I thought it felt just fine and that I could live with it. Then he handed me the 70 Classic...as soon as I had the weight of it in my hands I felt a strong attachment forming, and working the bolt a couple of times affirmed that feeling. I had to wait over ten years to own that rifle but finally it happened.

Another thought...firearms are selling like never before. I haven't looked up any statistics but I doubt that S&W is having trouble selling revolvers, and I'll bet you still have to wait a year for a Shiloh Sharps in .40-65.

Classic firearms will probably always become more expensive, but I don't think they'll ever go away.

I am curious to see the values of older classic guns in 10 years. I think they will continue to increase but maybe at a slower rate

Chuck, my only real rebuttable is that the machines are better not the machinst.

I completely that the craftsmanship and skill of a real machinist, not some yahoo operating a program call himself a machinist, can never be replaced by a CNC.
There is an old school machinist whom I really respect and he tells me all the time he's glad that his pre-WWII machines are now retro fitted with modern measuring tools.

I guess i should have clarified that precision measuring IMO is what makes today's manufactured products better, especially when you're talking about large production factory built firearms.

I'm not so sure about modern machining making firearms better these days, but I strongly believe automotive engines are better than they were. Maybe the fact that firearms are more intimately felt and perceived imposes an ongoing requirement for artistry in production.

That's right.

I remember when 100k on a car or truck was whole bunch. No big deal, today. My 2001 Cummins NEVER left me on the side of the road, nor has my 2008. My 1971 F-100 did, my 1976 F-350 did, and my current 1979 F-250 wouldn't start last week. But you can bet the chassis and drive terrain is still fine. But I digress.

These dealers just need to be happy that there is a younger generation interested in guns. They may eventually branch out into other guns. Honestly this is kind like an car saleman whining because people are buying newer cars instead of older. Change your stock and cash in.

I completely understand the lack of interest in engraved guns. Most of it is too frilly for my taste. I can appreciate nice lumber, but I'm not paying 2x the amount for it.