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looking for new rifle
#5009239
03/07/14 04:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 95
Nike
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 95 |
Newb here guys! I love this forum.
I currently primarily carry a Ruger M77 LH in 7mm Mag. I love this gun and have hunted with it for 14 season this year BUT am in dire need of a smaller caliber rifle.
Im looking for something I can pass to my newborn son in the future (so possibly a youth model)
Lightweight and possibly a shorter barrel
Im a lefty, my son may not be... Possibly a single shot?
I grew up on a 6mm mowhawk... Is 6mm an easily accessible round?
I plan to use this gun to take one of the many bobcats I have seen in the past few years. This is relevant because I ruined two cats with my 7mm before giving up. Im looking for rifle model and caliber suggestions.
I am open to any suggestions... Planning to buy in about 5 months but wanting to do my research before.
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5009292
03/07/14 06:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,689
TRoberts
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,689 |
Can't go wrong with 7mm-08 for caliber.
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5009302
03/07/14 07:45 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,732
HorizonFirearms
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,732 |
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5009307
03/07/14 08:10 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,101
Colt W. Knight
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,101 |
Remington Model 7 Mountain rifle in 7mm-08. There are 30 other guns and calibers that work equally as well, but the Remington Model 7 Mountain rifle is short and light( hence mountain rifle, an heirloom quality piece, and a very fine rifle. I picked 7mm-08 because it matches your 7 mag. Ideally, if you want to harvest cats or other small predators without tearing up pelts, I would suggest something in the 22 caliber range like a .223 or 22-250. On the less expensive side, you could pickup a 17 HMR that would work great for those small cats.
Last edited by Colt W. Knight; 03/07/14 08:11 AM.
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5009641
03/07/14 03:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 8
SGT MAC
Green Horn
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Green Horn
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 8 |
If your looking for a great rifle that your son can enjoy as he grows up you can't go wrong with a .22cal. There are a bunch of makes out there for kids like the Cricket. It's inexpensive and a lot of fun to shoot. They are a single shot bolt action so he can focus on marksmanship and not wasting ammo with a semi auto like most kids like to do (just like I used to). If you look on Gunbroker.com or Gunsamerica.com you can search for youth models on there and see what's available.
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5009653
03/07/14 03:28 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,262
RICK O'SHAY
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,262 |
6mm is getting really hard to find, 243 can still be found pretty easily.
With not knowing if he'll be RH or LH makes it kind of hard to pick which to buy. I'd say pick one that you like for now. If you buy LH and he turns out to be RH you can always use it to teach him how to trade someday.
DISCLAIMER ATTENTION: Your decision should NEVER be based SOLELY upon my advice, recomendation, or opinion.
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5009892
03/07/14 05:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,791
DocBailey
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,791 |
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5009903
03/07/14 05:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502 |
22" barrel... 6.5 creedmoor or 7-08
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5009908
03/07/14 05:56 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,502 |
6mm great round. Ammo is out there. Just stock up when you buy and you will be fine
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5009925
03/07/14 06:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 460
Wallhanger
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 460 |
So many ways to go. My option would be .308 Here me out though you can find low recoil ammo out there 125 grain my buddy let his daughter shoot her first deer this year with it (she is 8). That way when he gets older all ya gotta do is up the load and keep the gun. True story my pops put put a 30/30 in my hands at 7. First shot knocked me off the shooting bench. He said "Honey grab the .243 he aint ready for this yet." I still have that old .243 Remington its a Tack Driver
Good luck brother
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: TRoberts]
#5009948
03/07/14 06:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,061
Baylor_Bears
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,061 |
Can't go wrong with 7mm-08 for caliber.
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5009950
03/07/14 06:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
WileyCoyote
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407 |
1st Question 1st - What kinda budget do you have to spend & are YOU gonna want to use it until it's time to start teaching Small Son??
Then we can start on the ...What to buy for a Rifle for a small sized preteen beginning shooter & capable of lasting a lifetime if need be.
IMO the criteria for a rifle should be: Weight 'tween 5 & 6lbs, in a youth sized short stock, or an Adult sized throw away stock trimmed to Youth Length, with adult sized replacement stock available, then pick a Little Red Riding Hood do all caliber with not too much recoil, but useful forever. That sound like your perceived Outline of Need??
Several ways IMO to go either in a Bolt Action or Lever Action, but a Single shot?? ehhh!! not so much, but doable ...but more than likely gonna become a Kleenex throwaway gun.
In bolt actions -Budgets not withstanding - 'tween 5 & 6lbs are: My 1st OverAll choice is a Tikka T3's blue/syn & mebbe a used SS/syn, then mebbe a Savage LightWeights, Savage Youth series, M70 Short Action Pushfeeds on 20" barrel Compacts, Ruger UltraLight in a SA caliber, Kimber Montana @ 5bl 2ozs in SA calibers. Zastava Model 85 aka Mini Mauser, also sold under 3-5 other brand names from Remington, Charles Daly to Mark X and an ideal sub sized small receiver rifle in several useful calibers but the 7.62 x39 is what I'd buy as it is equal to or better in performance than a 30-30 in name brand ammo & imported "training ammo" is super cheap, CZ 527, another ideal sub sized receiver in 7.62x39 or other calibers @ 5 3/4 lbs w/ a 18.5" barrel.
Lever Actions: you can never go wrong with a 30-30 in this kinda circumstance. Finding a quality gun is the issue now that Marlin has been bought out by Remington & apparently the QC has gone the way of the DoDo bird. Find an old Marlin in good shape and you could call it good. Dunno nuthin about the Rossi's but it'd be a possibilty if you are determined to buy a lever gun.
Calibers: Since we are looking at low recoil, pre teen child tolerable but WTail & Hog but Lifetime useful ....I'd suggest several different calibers besides the perennial kneejerk response of Ya gotta get a 243 or 223 for a kid. Those 2 calibers will work but I believe there not only Other Options but potentially Better Options. As Said earlier, your 6mm Mohawks ammo is about dried up & all gone for lack of sales volume.
Under no circumtances would I buy a RUGER 16" barreled Compact as the muzzle blast & concussion cone is simply fearsome awesome to a preteen shooter.
Cutting and re crowning a Used longer than needed barrel is not horrible spendy - a guy here on THF offers it $50 as I remember - to do and does not Affect accuracy, but may actually improve it, or Effect MV past about 35-50fps at most per inch in barrel length reduction .... until you get below 20"s. Short arms handle short overall rifle lengths waaay Mo Bettah than longer barreled guns was my experience with my 2 sons at that age.
Tikka T3 synthetic factory stocks can be cut down easily and used synthetic factory takeoffs are common from folks @ $100 or less upgrading into a B&C Medallion, M70 Fwt New Haven stocks can still be had from CDNN in Abilene for $50 in 100% finished uncheckered Fwt stock or $80-$100 for checkered Fwt brand New stocks leftover from the Plant closure, Ruger UL receiver is a drop in on aftermarket less expensive stocks, but I'd leave the full length factory stock untouched.
2nd things 2nd - Calibers: Without stepping on the usual toes and exepecting the typical kneejerk reaction for a pre teen childs 1st rifle of "Ya gotta get a Kid a 243" or "223's will kill any deer in Texas just like a ...you name a caliber"....I believe that not only are there OTHER choices, but potentially BETTER choices especially for a Lifetime Functionality. I too would focus initially on recoil like the 243 & 223 guys are correct about....but Suggest thes calibers in the same recoil range: #1 a 6.5x55 ( Tikka T3 Hunter Grade @ 6lbs 10oz in a blue steel & wood stock or 6lbs 2ozs in a takeoff factory synthetic stock), #2 a 7.62x39 in either a M85 Mini Mauser or CZ 527 Carbine, #3 a 257Roberts, #4 a 260 probably available best from Savage or uggh in a Remmy 700, #5 a 7x57 Mauser hardest to find and heaviest, & #7 a 7-08 ( again in a Tikka T3 synthetic as my best choice) ...and study the pro's and cons of these for your requirements with an open mind.
My Opinions are mine and based on MY Experiences with MY family and the 13 years I spent of calling on several hundred Gun Dealers in 5 SWestern States...and Your Mileage May Vary...but that's OK too. Have Fun Ron
It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams "These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine
"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: WileyCoyote]
#5010173
03/07/14 08:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 95
Nike
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 95 |
1st Question 1st - What kinda budget do you have to spend & are YOU gonna want to use it until it's time to start teaching Small Son??
Then we can start on the ...What to buy for a Rifle for a small sized preteen beginning shooter & capable of lasting a lifetime if need be.
IMO the criteria for a rifle should be: Weight 'tween 5 & 6lbs, in a youth sized short stock, or an Adult sized throw away stock trimmed to Youth Length, with adult sized replacement stock available, then pick a Little Red Riding Hood do all caliber with not too much recoil, but useful forever. That sound like your perceived Outline of Need??
Several ways IMO to go either in a Bolt Action or Lever Action, but a Single shot?? ehhh!! not so much, but doable ...but more than likely gonna become a Kleenex throwaway gun.
In bolt actions -Budgets not withstanding - 'tween 5 & 6lbs are: My 1st OverAll choice is a Tikka T3's blue/syn & mebbe a used SS/syn, then mebbe a Savage LightWeights, Savage Youth series, M70 Short Action Pushfeeds on 20" barrel Compacts, Ruger UltraLight in a SA caliber, Kimber Montana @ 5bl 2ozs in SA calibers. Zastava Model 85 aka Mini Mauser, also sold under 3-5 other brand names from Remington, Charles Daly to Mark X and an ideal sub sized small receiver rifle in several useful calibers but the 7.62 x39 is what I'd buy as it is equal to or better in performance than a 30-30 in name brand ammo & imported "training ammo" is super cheap, CZ 527, another ideal sub sized receiver in 7.62x39 or other calibers @ 5 3/4 lbs w/ a 18.5" barrel.
Lever Actions: you can never go wrong with a 30-30 in this kinda circumstance. Finding a quality gun is the issue now that Marlin has been bought out by Remington & apparently the QC has gone the way of the DoDo bird. Find an old Marlin in good shape and you could call it good. Dunno nuthin about the Rossi's but it'd be a possibilty if you are determined to buy a lever gun.
Calibers: Since we are looking at low recoil, pre teen child tolerable but WTail & Hog but Lifetime useful ....I'd suggest several different calibers besides the perennial kneejerk response of Ya gotta get a 243 or 223 for a kid. Those 2 calibers will work but I believe there not only Other Options but potentially Better Options. As Said earlier, your 6mm Mohawks ammo is about dried up & all gone for lack of sales volume.
Under no circumtances would I buy a RUGER 16" barreled Compact as the muzzle blast & concussion cone is simply fearsome awesome to a preteen shooter.
Cutting and re crowning a Used longer than needed barrel is not horrible spendy - a guy here on THF offers it $50 as I remember - to do and does not Affect accuracy, but may actually improve it, or Effect MV past about 35-50fps at most per inch in barrel length reduction .... until you get below 20"s. Short arms handle short overall rifle lengths waaay Mo Bettah than longer barreled guns was my experience with my 2 sons at that age.
Tikka T3 synthetic factory stocks can be cut down easily and used synthetic factory takeoffs are common from folks @ $100 or less upgrading into a B&C Medallion, M70 Fwt New Haven stocks can still be had from CDNN in Abilene for $50 in 100% finished uncheckered Fwt stock or $80-$100 for checkered Fwt brand New stocks leftover from the Plant closure, Ruger UL receiver is a drop in on aftermarket less expensive stocks, but I'd leave the full length factory stock untouched.
2nd things 2nd - Calibers: Without stepping on the usual toes and exepecting the typical kneejerk reaction for a pre teen childs 1st rifle of "Ya gotta get a Kid a 243" or "223's will kill any deer in Texas just like a ...you name a caliber"....I believe that not only are there OTHER choices, but potentially BETTER choices especially for a Lifetime Functionality. I too would focus initially on recoil like the 243 & 223 guys are correct about....but Suggest thes calibers in the same recoil range: #1 a 6.5x55 ( Tikka T3 Hunter Grade @ 6lbs 10oz in a blue steel & wood stock or 6lbs 2ozs in a takeoff factory synthetic stock), #2 a 7.62x39 in either a M85 Mini Mauser or CZ 527 Carbine, #3 a 257Roberts, #4 a 260 probably available best from Savage or uggh in a Remmy 700, #5 a 7x57 Mauser hardest to find and heaviest, & #7 a 7-08 ( again in a Tikka T3 synthetic as my best choice) ...and study the pro's and cons of these for your requirements with an open mind.
My Opinions are mine and based on MY Experiences with MY family and the 13 years I spent of calling on several hundred Gun Dealers in 5 SWestern States...and Your Mileage May Vary...but that's OK too. Have Fun Ron
Many good replies in this thread. Thanks to all who have given their opinion thus far. WileyCoyote, I am hoping to spend no more than $1,000 on the rifle. Optics another 1,000 but assume that is for another thread. I do plan to primary carry and hunt with this rifle in the meantime. My comments behind a single shot were centered on the Thompson Center encore platform. many of your assumptions are correct. I have a busy afternoon but wanted to bump this thread back up. I appreciate the suggestions and will look into them. Thanks Frank
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5010305
03/07/14 09:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
WileyCoyote
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407 |
Nike, At $700 to $1000 to spend ..that allows for a broader choice of upper end NIB & lightly used Production Rifles, and the possibilty of a quality Used rifle in the next price quadrant from $1000 to about $1500.
At the $700 to $1000 IMO I'd be looking at Again the Tikka T3's in the bottom end of that spectrum, and allows for a used Factory Stock as a donor to be altered.
In the Spirit of Full Disclosure I am not a big fan of anything in a green Box but it is a personal thing with Remmy for me, but again in this price range Remington does offer some selections that fit in calibers otherwise not available like the 260. FWIW I don't think you'll be able to buy a Remington at Albertsons or Safeway anytime soon, despite Remmy's parent company, Cerberus Investments, just acquiring Safeway under it's Albertons Division for $9 Billion this week.
I've had several opportunities to buy 98/99% Kimber Classics & Montana's in the bottom end of this price point that looking back I should have taken ...and mebbe re sold at a profit or used for trade bait.
Older mid sized action SAKO's fit in here as well and will only appreciate over time...try and find a AV action in a 22" barreled SA caliber like a 7-08. We called them a Handy Rifle or a Hunter later on right as I was leaving the importer, late in Fall 1988, round forearm, palm swell, and red butt pad.
Used current SAKO Model 85 Finnlights can be had a tad over your budget - new ones List for $1500 - and usually are scary accurate...I picked up a Used & disc'ed M85 Wood/Blue Hunter Grade 260 with Killer Wood at that " tad over yur Budget" price about 16-18 months ago.
SAKO A7's are probably too heavy but fit in that price point and I missed a A7 SS/syn 270 at $700 at the same time I got the 260...and turned down a cherry Montana 25-06 at $800 2 weeks later. Haven't shot a 25'06 in waaay too long to start over.
I am looking at a very nice wood/blue Steyr SBS 260 w/ a 23.6" barrel in Georgia right now that I am going to pass on at $675. It'd be a shame to chop the butt to make it doable for the preteen but meantime... you get the picture.
Happy to help. Ron
It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams "These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine
"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5010512
03/07/14 11:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,941
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,941 |
When you said that you are a Lefty, but your son might not be, the first thing that popped into my head was a Lever Action Rifle. They are ambidextrous. You could get one hell of a high end lever rifle for $1000. Another thought...BAR. I am not a lefty, but I assume that a BAR could be easily operated by a lefty. The BAR would give you a broader range of caliber choices, not to mention that a semi-auto will also absorb some of the recoil.
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5010519
03/07/14 11:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,941
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,941 |
And, now that I think about it, a BLR would be ambidextrous, and give you the broader range of calibers (box magazine)
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5010565
03/08/14 12:14 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 327
tehachapi
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 327 |
I'm also a left hander and as such i'd stay away from the bolt actions and stick with a single shot (Rossi or H&R Handi rifle). Check out the listings for the Handi rifle and you'll probably be surprised by the wide range of cartridge choices. The other choice is a lever action and for your use i'd be leaning towards the lightweight BLR in .243
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5010785
03/08/14 02:35 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,180 |
For your purposes I have to say 243, 22-250, or 223. In no particular order. I own all three, and two of them are bolt actions. They all have their own job.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5011125
03/08/14 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 95
Nike
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 95 |
Thanks for all the great replies. I am not a huge fan of lever actions as a first gun. I will look into the single shots and bolt actions listed this afternoon when I get off work.
My 1k price needs to include shipping, taxes, etc.... Hoping to get by Carter's country and get my hands on a few of these soon as that will help me make my mind up
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5011417
03/08/14 05:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407
WileyCoyote
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,407 |
Might want to take a look at the 2014 Tikka Catalog on line at www.Tikka.fi/ to see the new Compact rifles for small shooters. Lighter weight and shorter stock @ 12.5"s LOP , with a spacer kit to restore the stock to full length LOP, and 20" barrel. Typical Tikka execution from what I can tell. Nike, Might be your answer right here. Lots of other goodies too, a new 7 1/2lb 20" barreled 260 & 308 only shooter with a 10 Round STEEL magazine, threaded for a suppresor. or a couple 20" barreled 6 1/2 pound w/Battue sights in wood or Syn stocks for running game shots. I handled a Battue back in the 80's the first time and have always wanted one ever since. ....and and and and, ya'll check it out,just gotta find a US distributor. Only one I know of is eurooptics, and another guy put me on Cove Creek where he a got a RH 260 Hunter Grade last month & now are sold out. Oh Well Ron
It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams "These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine
"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5011575
03/08/14 07:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 166
magnolia_beach
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 166 |
Remington Model Seven is hard to beat.
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5013815
03/10/14 05:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 526
Junior Samples
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 526 |
Congrats on the newborn. Shot my first deer with a .243 lever action. Good Luck
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Re: looking for new rifle
[Re: Nike]
#5075725
04/17/14 06:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 95
Nike
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 95 |
Update: just made a semi-impulse decision and put a Savage model 11 Trophy in 22-250 on layaway at Gander. Comes with the Nikon BDC scope.
What's the thoughts on 60 grain ammo through this gun?
Thanks
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