Hello, Im sure this topic has been covered many times on here so If anyone could post a link to a discussion I would appreciate it.

The question that I have is: What are the advantages of having a mill mil vs a MOA MOA scope? Ive noticed that both can be had from Nightforce and other top quality manufactures. The only scopes that I have ever used have had standard mil dot reticles with moa adjustments so I know dont know much.

Also, I rarely use my reticle for range estimation. Always use a rangefinder and Ballistic Calculator.

Any help is appreciated.

Short answer; Mil/Mil for quick adjustments in dynamic shooting scenarios. I.e. hunting, and tactical type matches. MOA/MOA for finer adjustments such as bench rest shooting. The MOA/ MOA will work for the first example, as well. Most shooters I run with run Mil/Mil for the ease of adjustments.

Oh, and I rarely use the reticle to range with. That's what laser range finders are for, and I have a goodun. I use the reticle to hold wind, mostly. If it's a new load/ rifle I use the elevation, and windage in the reticle to spot impacts, record what was observed, and learn what the rifle/ load is doing.

This morning I piled more dirt on all of the berms, went back to the zero line to make sure I could still see every target. Figured since I was there I'd make my daily cold bore shot. I dialed up 3.6 Mils for 600 yards, looked at the foliage, felt the wind on my cheek, called it 5 mph. I held .5 Mil into the wind, and sent the round. Impacted .2 into the wind. I hit my target, but not dead center. So what I already knew was reinforced. And that is judging wind is an art, and I havn't mastered it yet. But I'm workin on it.

What about a MIl MIL scope makes it quicker to adjust. Couldnt you follow the exact same procedure using a MOA MOA scope? Just having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

Couldn't I spot an impact that was minute to the right due to wind, and correct using a hold off? Or dial a minute to the left?

Some people find it easier to use a scope with a mil dot reticle since most reticles will have both horizontal and vertical subtending. You can adjust you aim point by "holding off" so many mil left or right for wind and up or down for range without having to dial corrections in using the turrets. You can do same with a MOA cope if the reticle is subtened that way.

Both MOA and Mil are angular measurements. The main difference between the two systems is the angular measurement they use. One tenth of a mil subtends 1cm at 100 meters which equals .36 inches at 100 yards. One MOA subtends 1inch at 100 yards ( it really subtends 1.047 inches but I don't know anyone that shoots so well they calculate MOA that precise).

There are a lot of post on THF that can help you make a decision on which one will work best for you. The most important thing is don't buy a scope that uses both system, i.e. mil dot reticle and MOA reticle. They just don't work well together.

Sort of. One Mil is a yard at 1000 yards, a foot at 1000 feet, a meter at 1000 meters, one centimeter at 1000 centimeter, one rod at 1000 rods, ect. Cut the 1000 by 10, and cut the Mil by 10. So at 100 yards a Mil is 3.6" a tenth Mil is .36"

Gbeard, yes I mentioned that both will work similarly. The difference is an MOA scope is typically in quarters, a Mil is in tenths. Being in tenths makes it a bit faster to graph in the reticle. Also, since a 1/4 MOA is a finer adjustment than .1 Mil it takes more "clicks" to dial the proper correction.

The biggest factor that the Mil has over the MOA is the ease of memorizing windage for every range. I've got DOPE charts printed with elevation, and windage. I've memorized the wind holds because there is a simple correlation between distance and necessary wind correction. Pretty much have the elevation corrections memorized by now, as well.

Thank you for the input fellas!! I have been doing some reading over the past couple of hours. Pretty intrigued by the H59 reticle. The Bushnell HDMR seems like I pretty nice set up.

Just starting out and wanna long range shoot mil mil is prob your best bet since most long range shooters have gone to that language. It will be easier for you if you are speaking same language as your peeps

Both work fine. I think another appeal to mil scopes for a while was the availability to make it to 1000 with only one knob revolution.

If you have 10 Mils per rev. That was a big selling point for the SS 5-20X, for me. All my other scopes have 5 Mils per rev. Really like the 10 Mils better.

My moa is not either but my shooting buddies is a high speed and is much better in my opinion.

My first mil/mil scope came in the mail yesterday. It's a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x and I can already tell I'm going to love this scope and the adjustments a lot more.

Something to add- Each increment (or "click") on the turret is .1 for mil and .25 for moa. .1 mil is about .36 inches, where .25 MOA is .26 inches at 100 yards. If you take a 600 yard shot, you will have to dial about 12 MOA and about 2.8 mils (both are about the same). There is much less turning the knob for mil turrets, which makes it faster. But moa turrets are more precise. I prefer MOA for a long range hunting scope, and mils for speed and competitions. Both work on the same principal.

Personally, I just use the reticle. Even with a duplex. I'll do the math in a ballistics
calculator and figure out what the bottom post of the duplex is at full magnification. So
say on my 308 it might be 321y at 9x, so I'll use that generally. If I need to hunt longer,
I'll see what the yardage is for that bottom post on say 8x or 7x; optimizing the bullet
speed for just over 1900ft per second, because that's where I'm most comfortable. Then I just
use holdover between the crosshair and bottom post. Won't work real well for a real hot magnum
where you cross over 1900 fps way out there. But hey, it works for me!

Gravytrain,

You are a skilled man! That is doing it the hard way. Yes, it can be done, you prove that, but having your trajectory produced in Mil or MOA means dial and shoot, or hold and shoot the correction the calculator gave you.

I've taught several shooters how to use the duplex reticle by holding. Most standard duplex reticles are about 4" from center cross hair to the edge where the cross hair line goes from thin to thick. 4" is ~4 moa (for simple math). You can hold wind and elevation on max power and get on target out to 300-400 yards doing this.