Lots of good opinions in this thread. IMO with enough practice 500 and in, dial scopes, range finders and such are not necessary but sure do make things a lot easier. I also will not trust a scope for using in a dial application without running through a box test, have seen more than one fail in repeatable settings.

30+ years ago several of us would get together for a little Sunday afternoon shoot at a bean field. targets would be set at unknown distance to the shooters usually between 300 and 600 yards. Each shooter would put $5 in the hat and have one shot at their target, closest to the bull took the $. this was shot with our hunting rifles with no scope larger than 3X9 being owned by any of us and was great practice under some pressure.

mil/mil or moa/moa doesn't really matter just learn the equipment of preference and how to use it, along with your limitations with it. the only way is to get out there and practice.

Sounds like the perfect Sunday.

Dangint! I have not been on here in a couple of weeks and this post blew up. Had many more replies than I expected with some great info. Sorry I have not been following lately. Had a couple of family emergencies and been away from comp..
I guess I did not make clear on a few topics. When I was talking long range, I was talking 800 - 1000 yd+. I do not concider anything inside of 500 as being far. On the point of needing to take a Trig, and Geometry class, PLEASE NO MORE!. I have a BS in Math and Grad work in it as well. I WANT NO MORE MATH! If I cant figure it in my head or toes and fingers then I dont want to do it....
I have to agree with kmon1 on not making a difference on mil/mil or moa/moa. As long as you know the conversion at distances then it will only be up to what you have taught yourself to use.
I have noticed that the Nikon scope has light gathering of 95%+ as well as the ATACR from Nightforce as well as Zeiss. Like I was saying before, clear glass and light gathering is the biggest factor in my decision. Is one of these, or another you may point towards, a better fit?

There is no math to worry about, nor is there any conversions to worry about. Input BC, MV, bullet weight, and caliber. Tell the calculator to give you trajectory in Mils, and it will give you a chart with trajectory and wind drift. Done, dial what it calculated.

700 yards 4.6 Mil

Dial the elevation turret around to number 4, and add 6 more clicks, you now have a 700 yard zero. Wind will be .6 Mil per 5 mph, 90 degree wind. Hold into the wind a half a Mil ( the little hash mark halfway between the first Mil dot, line, triangle), and add 1/10 more as best you can estimate. Pretty easy really.


Of what you just listed I'd go with Nightforce. Nikon has no business in the same sentence as NF and Zeiss.

That is what I was thinking on the Nikon. I was told from a friend that their new scopes were great. I was almost afraid to throw that name in their, but figured someone would give their opinions on them. Honestly I am steering towards the ATACR so far. Should be a great low light, long range scope.

Nixon scopes will be lacking in elevation travel as would the low end Zeiss scopes. The NF you listed will have more than enough travel but it is a very large scope even when compared to their NXS lineup.

I know what your saying but those being in the same paragraph just struck me as funny...no math but you need a calculator

Ha! Never thought of it that way.

Yeah, the online calculators are a tool I wish I had 20 years ago. It can all be figured with a real calculator, but who wants to pack one hunting with them?

The figuring is done once, then you use the data that was given to you. Two hours ago I dialed up to 3.6 Mils (from memory) lined up on the 600 yard steel, fired, ping, impacted 2 tenths left of center. Held two tenths right of the previous shot and center punched it.

The only math I did was witness impact .2 Mil left of center, and held .2 more to the right.

My 15 yr. old daughter decided she wanted to try to shoot a milk jug at 400 yds. Made her longest shot this year hunting, 152 yard neck shot. This day we had a 15 - 18 mph crosswind. The gun is a basic Sendero in 300 RUM with the NXS 5.5-22X56 and an 8oz. Jewell trigger and FACTORY ammo. We set the jug out at 400 a couple at 300 and 1 at 200. She shot the 200 yd. jug, the 300 yd. jug dialing 1.5 moa elevation and 1 moa wind. No problems. She dialed 2.5 moa elevation for 400 yds. and 2 moa for wind and barely missed. Adjusted .5 moa more of wind and second shot at 400 barely missed dead center. All she knew to do was hit it with Range Finder, dial moa according to range card, hold steady and squeeze the shot slowly. She had been hunting for 5-6 yrs. and shoots trap so she does have a little experience shooting. The NXS works for me but am interested in trying the Vortex scopes with the zero stop to see how they compare for 1/2 the money.

awesome!