I'm getting ready to start working on getting some suppressors and an SBR or two. From what I've come to understand, a living trust is the best way to hold ownership of the items and has lots of advantages over owning them as an individual.

I did some searching on here and didn't come up with much info. I also looked some online but there's a lot of conflicting information out there. Plus a lot of it on other parts of the internet is from people in other states that may have different laws than us. I don't ever intend to leave Texas and thus don't pay much mind to those liberals up north.

Any bits of info and advice would be appreciated!

Another option is buying them through a corporation which is what I have done for all of mine.

It is similar in principal to a trust, but the officers of the corp have access to the nfa items.

First, I would say use a lawyer. Starting a trust is simple and there are cheap ways to do it. But you want it to hold up in court if necessary. Plus, a trust lawyer can answer all your legal questions rather than some of the stuff posted on the forums. I used a trust lawyer in Fort Worth.
Second, definitely go with the trust. The best reason is that with the trust, you can eFile for your Form 1 and Form 4. That means 100 days to get the stamp rather than 350 days.

Lets not, too much [censored] pain and another thread going down the drain.

I'm planning to. If it ever comes under scrutiny, I'd much rather have had a pro put it together. That's pretty impressive that you can drop the wait by that much. That's worth it right there.



That's another thought. Let me ask you this though, if it's setup as a corp is there any real advantage over a trust other than being able to have multiple officers with equal status? I could see it being really handy if the weapons are owned by a club or something like that. Of course with a corp, you'll have to file reports and a tax return. I don't think a trust would have to do anything. Is that correct?

I saw the silencershop gun trust deal but I'm betting that's going to be inferior to having an actual attorney put it together. It seems like there's quite a few attorneys that will do it for $3-500 or so.



What's the issue?

Too many opinions, many different stories. Last I heard that the online wait is the same wait. Im going the individual route because the sheriff will sign off the forms and the fingerprinting is free, getting the photos is free for me as well because of the passport office on base takes the photos needed for the forms. Im not saying you should go that route but its always cool to check.

Do a google search on "NFA gun trust changes" . There are widespread expansive opinions about what is coming in the way of ATF rule changes.

From what I read, it still seems like the trust is the way to go. It just appears that a person with a trust will have to do the same process that a person without one will. However, your wife or whoever is a trustee of said item won't be in violation if it is found in their possession.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I know a lot of you guys use suppressors. Any first hand knowledge of the different processes would be appreciated.

Regarding an attny doing it...what are the risks of a trust going to court or being under scrutiny? What reasons would they have to question a trust?

Ignorant question, I know...sorry but I'm curious.

DeRico - I've heard you cannot get a signoff in Dallas County so a trust or corp are the only options for some.

It's all speculation at this point. The most popular opinion floating around is that everyone listed on the trust will need to provide credentials for the background check.

The opinions on CLEO signature vary, but if it doesn't go away, everything you have on a trust will need to get a CLEO signature. Historically this has ranged from posible, to dificult, to imposible depending on your location.

If you have items registered to a trust, have items pending, or plan on buying with a trust, you might consider where you're going to get a CLEO signature.

I think all the same issues apply for corps.

yes trust is the way to go, you can add whoever you want to it and it passes down your collection to your family automatically. as where CLEO sign off you would have to pay for another stamp to transfer it to someone else.

In a trust, all named trustees are equal, same as officers in a corporation. Only difference would be a corporation wouldn't ever end as long as someone keeps filing, while a trust can not last forever and requires beneficiaries. But I'm no lawyer.



Also speculation. They could say everything already in the trust is grandfathered and anything after a date requires CLEO signature, etc.

There's no real advantage over a trust unless you already have a corp. I already had one, so I just used that rather than getting a trust. The biggest advantage is that all of my stamps and nfa items are tax write-offs as a business expense because the corp owns them.

You do not have to provide any documentation except a certificate of filing when purchasing the item. I'm not exactly sure about any reports you are required to file as I will be filing tax returns under this business for a long time. I don't foresee anyone ever asking to see copies of tax returns to validate a corporation's status.

That sounds pretty good. Only thing I can see is having an entity to just own the nfa items and nothing else may be beneficial if a lawsuit ever arises for whatever reason. I wouldn't want my business or real estate tied up in anything if I ever happened to pop a guy breaking into my house with my suppressed rifle and his family sues me or something.

However that would be pretty tight to write off my guns!

Good information from everyone. I was getting on here to ask the same question until I saw this post. Going to talk to a trust lawyer tomorrow, just was curious to see if I was going about things the right way and it looks like I am.

Let us know who you used and what you thought about the process if you don't mind. Personally I thinks pretty ridiculous that suppressors are regulated at all.

Good golly Molly, again? Folks a trust is just a legal document like a bill of sale. I'm gonna say this again. Lawyers don't invent documents they use a computer to print out a form and they fill in the personal info. Wise up!

Complete agree. Suppressors and SBR's are just stupid to regulate. Machine guns, I guess maybe, but even then I think its against our 2A right.

I did my own. From a template another user had done his from. Like Cast said it is just fill in the blank. Get it notarized and it is a legal binding document. The lawyers just charge you $250+ to fill in the blank and print it out. I don't understand how you can create a NFA trust from the template. Send it in to the ATF and it pass through their process completely and not be valid. If the NFA trusts that individuals did themselves didn't work or wouldn't hold up in court they would never make it through the ATF process.

That is a good point right there Kroyal.

You are talking about Government employees, not lawyers working for the ATF. All they do is check if there is a trust document and maybe see if it's notarized. They could give two shits whether it's a document that would hold up under scrutiny in a court of law. That's your lawyer's job when the document was created. When you got your driver's license, did the person at the DMV office examine your birth certificate in detail and check if it was a real document and call the hospital you were born in to verify? No, they probably just looked at the birth date, name, stamp, and was done.

QFT

Sample Trust PDF

Just because I'm curious...what are the reasons they would scrutinize your document and what are the penalties?

Sorry, I know I'm sounding like a broken record but no one answered the question previously. It seems like a person needs to weigh the risks vs penalties to make an educated decision.

What could happen with any gun? You name it. Accidental shooting: You are taken to court for anything from negligence to murder to civil law suit by the family. Their lawyer picks apart your Trust making null and void and you lose your NFA item and now own several NFA items illegally since the Trust is gone. What's the penalty for all of that?
You own car insurance but you don't plan to get in a wreck. You own home insurance but don't expect the house to burn down anytime soon. Call it insurance that only requires one payment. People spend thousands on guns and suppressors and a safe and ammo and then scoff at a few hundred dollars for a properly written document to put some of those things in. A lawyer that wrote the document will be the first one ready to defend it in court. Who is going to defend some Trust made on Adobe Willmaker 2009? How much is that going to cost to get someone to defend it? I can contact the lawyer that wrote my trust and have him make any changes or ask him any NFA questions or whatever and it won't cost me anything. I can go pick up a an approved suppressor from the NFA dealer, e-mail the suppressor info to the lawyer and have a revised Schedule A e-mailed back to me the next day. I just print it and file it.