Question here for the experts. I've got my bench set up and press mounted. I've read the ABC's of reloading book, at least the parts relevant to the safety aspect and rifle reloading. And I've got the Lyman manual being delivered tomorrow.

I'm going to be loading for my .308 right now and probably my .30-30 in the future. My .308 is just for hunting whitetails and pigs.

I've read several things about ladder testing and how great it is for getting the most accuracy out of a reload. I'm shooting a Howa 1500 and its pretty accurate for a hunting gun but about 1MOA to slightly less is about the best I can get out of it (possibly part of that is me more than the rifle).

Given all that info. Is a ladder test a "must"? One I don't have access to a range longer than 200 yards. Two, I don't take any longer shots at this point in time.

Any other tips will be appreciated.

Also, if it helps any I have Varget powder and 165 grain partitions and 165 grain Barnes TSX bullets to play with right now.

Performing a ladder test on a rifle that won't be shooting long range, and not having access to a range 300 yards or more does not seem to be the right process for you. Yes, it may be a 1/2 MOA (or better) shooter at 300, and a one hole rifle at 100. But! You may need to look into an OCW test. It uses more components, but it is done at 100 yards.

You don't need a ladder test for <200 yd shots. You'll be better served shooting for various field positions.

Thanks guys. You confirmed what I was already thinking. I'd love to get into long range shooting some day but right now I don't have the rifle or the skill to do it.


I looked up the OCW test and just printed the steps off. I'm going to look into that and get to loading a few rounds. I don't really mind burning the components at this point. It's a good reason to go to the range and my hunting season is over til next fall any way.

Just do the tried and true "old school method" of load work up. For example, if the manual says a min of 38 and a max of 44, then start somewhere in the middle, and work up to max, (since hardly anyone wants a minimum load anyway). I always work backwards from max. My load work up looks something this in .3 grain increments for 308 sized cases.
42.5, 42.8, 43.1, 43.4 , 43.7, 44.0. Load up 3-5 rounds of each, and see what shoots the best. Look for pressure signs as you go up in charge weight. Make sure you make each shot count. If you pull the shot or have an oops, then how it shoots is a mystery. You will see groups open and close up, and sting right and left and up and down. Generally, when they string up and down or side to side, you are approaching an accuracy node, or just passed one. This method will generally find a good load in about 20-30 rounds. I found the one below in 19 rounds. You'll spend 2-3x more rounds with the ladder method (and with a "what the hell does this mean target"), and about 1.5-2x more with the OCW method, which is a very similar method as the old school method.

See the below pic of a 243 Win shooting 115 DTAC's at 300 yards. This is a perfect example of a typical load work up showing typical pattern testing different loads using the "old school method".
Group A is in the middle- it's opened up, and not what I'm looking for
Group B is low left- several good shots, but had a flier and some stringing right and left.
Group C top left- 3 nice and tight, but I have some stinging up and down. I knew the next group should be it.
Group D- Nice and centered, tight with no fliers, That is 5 shots in slightly less than 1" at 300 yards. I'll take it!

Thanks Chad. That helps a lot.

Since pretty much have access to 100 or 200 hundred yard range would the 200 be best to try this out at?

IMO, 100 yards is too close to test on most precision rifles. But since it's a hunting rifle, 100 yards should do just fine to start. If you want to get into shooting a little further and seeing what the rifle and ammo can really do, then you will want to increase your distance. Some of the rifles I shoot will literally shoot in the same hole. So, what's the real difference between a .19" group and a .21" group at 100 yards? You need longer distance to see the separation between the accuracy of the different loads. But if you select a near max load out of the book, it should still shoot very well, since you are feeding it consistent ammo loaded to tighter specs than factory ammo is.

A 308 is not that picky and is a pretty easy round to get dialed in. Do a little Google fu, and you can research some good loads with the powder you plan to run. Most 308's shoot about in the same node. Varget and a 165/168 class bullet, and there's ample data on it.

I do exactly as Chad does for his hunting rifles. An animal doesn't really care if your group is .10 bigger than the last group you shot. Most importantly take your time and watch for pressure signs. If you have access to a chrono that is really the best tool you can use testing loads. Velocity is going to tell you a lot more than just looking at a fired case. As velocity and pressure are kinda joined at the hip.

Seems to me you might want a accurate load before working on shooting positions. I personally like removing every variable possible.

I was going to say the exact same thing, but thought it might hurt some feelings.

OP states that this will most likely include his 30-30. I can't remember many real experts yapping about 0.5 MOA with a 30-30. Usually most are delighted with softball MOA and some will settle with piepan MOA. I have a Savage 340 that will shoot MOA but it has also been fully bedded. I mostly shoot 170 gr lead RN that I cast myself, but that is just for personal satisfaction.

Does anyone actually need 0.5 MOA for hogs/deer under 150 yds. I prefer to spend my time shooting, not reloading. Just MHO. But I yield to the experts.

30wcf might be a little tougher but I would likely do load development the same way.

Personally I think a ladder test for a 100 yard hunting gun is a bit overkill unless you suffer from OCD.

That's your perspective and you're welcome to it, it's just as valid as mine. Some of us are just hunters, some are gun fanciers, some are shooters, some are handloaders. Some are unique combinations of all of those, and that's why we so often disagree on questions like this.

Already shooting 1" groups and he's hunting deer and hogs. He needs to get off the bench and practice. Good nite nurse.

You and your suck buddies reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. Keep posting the same diatribes. Worthless and boring should be on your sig lines instead Team Tejas. Local gay group you fancy?

Karnis, you are making a lot of threads unpleasant to read. If you have a problem with someone, send them a PM. Please stop your insults and your rude comments.

Both of you knuckleheads are masters of the non sequitur.

Look it up because I know you have no idea what it means.

Much better!

LOL

I've been on here a long time and this is a first for ignoring a user. Thanks for the reminder Chad.

I need to follow Chad's lead.

Karnis is apparently on the THF to make enemies. Well, ink me in.

Three things I hate, hot beer, cold women, and a-holes. Karnis fits in the third category.

That's gonna help the situation how?

I tried to be nice. That didn't work. When what you're doing isn't working, try something else.

Doesn't matter to me but would have been nice for him to hang around with his years of experience I talk to him every day and never have an issue. One thing is for sure you two aren't on the same page.