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Gun Trusts
#4877721
12/31/13 06:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,991
bjones2571
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Anyone have any experience with them? Did you do it yourself or hire a lawyer? How'd it go? Recommendations? Thanks!
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4878054
12/31/13 08:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,580
TexFlip
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I made my own with Quicken Willmaker but my dad wasn't comfortable with it so we had a lawyer draw one up. Put them side by side and you can't tell 10 words difference. It's a form document, you just fill in the blanks with your info, that's what the lawyer did, over the phone and it cost me $450. YMMV
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4878445
12/31/13 11:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
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I went with a lawyer. Setting up a trust is simple. It's when you need the trust to hold up in court that it becomes important where it came from. I used Cole Bryan in Fort Worth. Nice guy and answered all my questions before setting up the trust. Does any needed changes after as well.
Last edited by Toxarch; 12/31/13 11:47 PM.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4878586
01/01/14 01:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,056
Hooligan
THF Trophy Hunter
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Is it worth it to do the trust instead of going the individual route?
Militavi Non Sine Gloria
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: Hooligan]
#4878615
01/01/14 01:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,580
TexFlip
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Is it worth it to do the trust instead of going the individual route? Some counties the only option is to do a trust, or LLC. Even if that isn't the case, setting up a trust allows access to items in the trust to any trustee, otherwise only the person on the stamp can possess the item. Also, if you add your spouse to the trust, she can purchase fun NFA stuff for you.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4878718
01/01/14 02:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,056
Hooligan
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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Militavi Non Sine Gloria
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4879242
01/01/14 09:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
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In addition to any trustee being able to possess the NFA items, it also means that your kids, grandkids, and so on never have to pay for another $200 stamp. They just get added to the trust as trustees and new beneficiaries get named so the trust lives on forever.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: Toxarch]
#4879255
01/01/14 10:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,580
TexFlip
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In addition to any trustee being able to possess the NFA items, it also means that your kids, grandkids, and so on never have to pay for another $200 stamp. They just get added to the trust as trustees and new beneficiaries get named so the trust lives on forever. Heirs don't have to pay a transfer tax regaurdless but being a trustee does make the transfer much quicker and easier.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: TexFlip]
#4881232
01/02/14 07:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
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Heirs don't have to pay a transfer tax regaurdless but being a trustee does make the transfer much quicker and easier. My understanding is the transfer tax is only waived one time for the first heir. The second heir will have to pay the tax again. But I am not a lawyer nor do I claim to be so don't take my word for it.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4881426
01/02/14 01:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 399
shootlow
Bird Dog
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I think im going to use Texas law Shield 299.00 total cost
Remember, the government cannot give anything to anyone that they have not first taken away from someone else.
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4883395
01/03/14 01:24 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,234
gusick
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I have a few questions if yall don't mind.
If you buy a short barreled full-auto rifle and put a suppressor on it, do you have to buy two separate stamps? I assume you do.
If you set up a trust, can you put more than one item in that trust? It seems that if you plan on buying more than one or two NFA items, the trust is cheaper than stamps.
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: gusick]
#4883410
01/03/14 01:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,308
Precision_Shooter
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I have a few questions if yall don't mind.
If you buy a short barreled full-auto rifle and put a suppressor on it, do you have to buy two separate stamps? I assume you do.
If you set up a trust, can you put more than one item in that trust? It seems that if you plan on buying more than one or two NFA items, the trust is cheaper than stamps. Actually 3 stamps in your case Short barrel less than 16 inches Full auto Suppressor
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4883431
01/03/14 01:41 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,234
gusick
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Once you have a trust, can you buy as many machine guns and suppressors you want and put them in the same trust? Or do you need a separate trust for each item?
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: gusick]
#4883929
01/03/14 04:27 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 685
Kentucky Native
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It seems that if you plan on buying more than one or two NFA items, the trust is cheaper than stamps. Multiple NFA items can go into the same trust but each item must still have its own unique tax stamp.
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: Toxarch]
#4884031
01/03/14 05:18 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 303
bluesman
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In addition to any trustee being able to possess the NFA items, it also means that your kids, grandkids, and so on never have to pay for another $200 stamp. They just get added to the trust as trustees and new beneficiaries get named so the trust lives on forever. Oh really?? Ever heard of the "rule against perpetuities"? You best do a lot more studying before you start trying to give legal advice on subjects you obviously know nothing about!!!
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bluesman]
#4884781
01/03/14 05:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 247
camartin
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 247 |
I am not a lawyer but, I do have some in the family and Toxarch is correct. Understand that the trust owns the items listed in it and the trustees control it. It is the same way as a corporation does it. Lets say that GE has a facility that makes smart bomb parts and they wanted to buy some fully automatic weapons for their security team, they do not have to pay for new tax stamps every time a CEO retires. They own them for as long as the company exists. Also, it would need to be a revocable trust so that it can be amended as necessary and not an irrevocable trust. I have waited to do mine (wanting a suppressor) for a couple of reasons. Lack of funds to buy the suppressor being the biggest one. Also, be aware that the ATF is trying to change the rules about how trusts and corporations are handled when it comes to the tax stamp. They are trying to make the process the same as getting an "individual tax stamp". You can research the proposed changes in this link: http://blog.princelaw.com/category/firearms-law/atf/
Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. Mark Twain
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: Precision_Shooter]
#4884930
01/03/14 05:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,580
TexFlip
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I have a few questions if yall don't mind.
If you buy a short barreled full-auto rifle and put a suppressor on it, do you have to buy two separate stamps? I assume you do.
If you set up a trust, can you put more than one item in that trust? It seems that if you plan on buying more than one or two NFA items, the trust is cheaper than stamps. Actually 3 stamps in your case Short barrel less than 16 inches Full auto Suppressor If the gun is a registered machine gun you can put a barrel under 16'' on it without having to pay $200. Machine gun overrides SBR.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: Precision_Shooter]
#4884987
01/03/14 06:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,560
100%TEXAN
Extreme Tracker
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They all go under the same trust. But after the first NFA tax stamp if you decide to get another you will have to list the NFA items in the trust on a schedule A that will also be sent to the ATF.
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4885104
01/03/14 07:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,991
bjones2571
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Anyone have one created by a gun trust lawyer that they would be willing to let me see to compare to the one I created through Willmaker? You would redact all personal info of course. Excuse my cheapness....
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: TexFlip]
#4885398
01/03/14 09:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
Veteran Tracker
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In addition to any trustee being able to possess the NFA items, it also means that your kids, grandkids, and so on never have to pay for another $200 stamp. They just get added to the trust as trustees and new beneficiaries get named so the trust lives on forever. Oh really?? Ever heard of the "rule against perpetuities"? You best do a lot more studying before you start trying to give legal advice on subjects you obviously know nothing about!!! I think you need to learn to read before you make any more comments trying to put words in my comments that are not there. I never said I have earmarked anything for future descendants. My trust is made for living beneficiaries. The trust is a revokable trust which means it can be altered and changed. The trust exists so long as there is a beneficiary. Once the beneficiary that I have named becomes old enough to legally possess the item in the state of Texas, the trust can be altered to make him/her a fellow trustee and to change the beneficiary to a different individual(s). Completely legal and it is NOT a perpetuity. It's already been discussed with my trust lawyer.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: TexFlip]
#4885400
01/03/14 09:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062 |
I have a few questions if yall don't mind.
If you buy a short barreled full-auto rifle and put a suppressor on it, do you have to buy two separate stamps? I assume you do.
If you set up a trust, can you put more than one item in that trust? It seems that if you plan on buying more than one or two NFA items, the trust is cheaper than stamps. Actually 3 stamps in your case Short barrel less than 16 inches Full auto Suppressor If the gun is a registered machine gun you can put a barrel under 16'' on it without having to pay $200. Machine gun overrides SBR. Correct. A machine gun does not need an SBR stamp.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4885780
01/04/14 12:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 46,950
Gravytrain
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So let me get this straight,
1 trust ~$299 SBR stamp $200 Suppressor Stamp $200
Then I get the benefits of a trust, and I can add multiple suppressors and SBR lowers without paying another $200 each?
Upon us all, upon us all, a little rain must fall
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4885986
01/04/14 01:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,991
bjones2571
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No. Each individual nfa item gets its own stamp. Buy a suppressor need a stamp. Buy another suppressor need another stamp. The trust is so you don't have to get fingerprinted and signed off by your local leo for each form. At least that's my understanding... and as discussed above you can "transfer" the use of it by adding or changing trustees. You are changing the authorized user of the item not the owner because legally the trust owns it.
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Re: Gun Trusts
[Re: bjones2571]
#4886202
01/04/14 03:37 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,062
Toxarch
Veteran Tracker
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Any trustee named in the the trust can possess and use the NFA items. No need to change it.
It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.
� Dwight D. Eisenhower
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