yall just seem to think that wing shooting with a shotgun is like shooting a rifle. "you get your gun sighted in and hand it to someone and they will automatically pick up more birds or clays". that is so stupid. without the fundamentals wing shooting does not work. period.

I think Double-R should put his money where his mouth is. Judd, Wal, or even that small guy Barneywho should take him hunting. Those guys pick your choke and your shells then lets see just how far the fundamentals will take you. Now you could be THAT GUY Double-R that nails every shot no matter what gun or shell you are using. I see about one maybe two guys like that every season, but the rest miss more than they hit, and from what I see its poor gun fit, poor shells, and bad choke selection. And trust me ive seen it all.

I apologize for lumping you into the retard section. I should not have done that. With that being said we can move on with a discussion. In this whole thread I never once disagreed funementals are absolutely paramount for good wing shooting. I am one of the preachers of fundementals. I believe we have just catagorized our terminolgy different. To me one of the fundementals is having properly tuned equipment. It has absolutely nothing to do with sighting in a gun like a rifle. It has all to do with delivering a certain amount of pellets in a desired width and a certain range.

For instance. I talk about hammering geese at 50 plus yards all the time. I went goose hunting with Dave Spear and there was a goose at about 50 yards, left to right. He said well there you go, get him. I told him I could not make that shot. He looked at me funny and I never got the chance to explain. What he didn't realize Is I had some very old shells I wanted to get rid of that morning. They were T anf F shot from the early 1990s. They suck! The technology had not been developed as it has been developed now. So later another bird came in and I let go at about 40 yards with T shot. He went down but I had to shoot him again. The question is why. I will answer it. Probably due to one pellet hit that bird due to a sorry patterning ability of the choke and shot combination. T and F shot are notoriously terrible for patterns. The pellets in that round can not and will not conform and hold a pattern. Had I shot that bird with a number 2 pellet in my 3.5 mag and my pattern master, he would have gone down like a bulldozer ran him over.

In my years of changing over from lead to steel and then onto better technology I, my mind and opinion started to change. Part of that change was reading Peter Hathoway Capsticks books. Death in the long grass ect. In it he preached about carrying shotguns to follow up with wounded cats. He liked the smaller pellets. He went on to explain the more the pellets that hit the target the better delivery of foot pounds/ energy exchange. That is why the one T shot pellet was not near enough to kill a goose. Now take that and think about 20 #2 pellets from the beak to the butt on that goose. It would have stoned him dead. BB is as large a pellet that I will buy any longer. I like #4 over the decoys for geese wide open choke. Outer edge of the spread IC or light mod choke with a #2 pellet. 50 yards I like BB but that is it in a teror chole or a pattern master. At 55 yards Terror actually beat out the Pattern Master by 10% of the total pellet count. That is of the total starting pellet count, so in reality 25 more pellets in a 30 inch circle at 55 yards is an outstanding difference in choke performance.

I realize these are two extreme differences in shell/ shot/choke combinations. If you could choose to dial in your weapon for a more supreme pattern and go to the field with good fundementals, why would you not? Why would you not want to take 5 shells and shoot the paper. If anything you are shooting your gun in the off season. If I wasn't in the office right now I would stick a shotgun out the window and pull the trigger. Why? Because I am a red blooded American and I like pulling a trigger. Fire at will!!!!

I understand what you are saying wal. but one can argue the other side as well. I have never patterned my shotgun. and I went to Michigan with spoonie this past September and were folding geese at 50 yards as well. I was shooting 3" BBB from walmart because that is all that I could find. we were dropping birds like that all morning. could it be that the pattern was just right etc? possibly but I will put it more to the fact that I did everything else right with my fundamentals and was busting birds. You can bet I was surprised that we were killing them at that far. and you can also bet that if I had a different brand of shell I would have tried to close them down just like I was. could there be a whole in my pattern of a different shell yes. but one has to agree to the fact that on a moving target wing shooting there are TOO MANY VARIABLES that can change a pattern in flight and can change whether you hit, wing, or drop the bird you are aiming at.

Double-R on this forum you are to all things wing shooting what marcstar is to shotgun shells. I surrender and give you the floor

I shoot duck commander loads through a benelli like phil shoots. Saves a lot of time and money if you just follow suit

I put a barrel sticker on my gun and it improved my patterns by 30%.

Barrel Stickers are hardcore.. But phil got in trouble with calling his a meat stick and got pulled from shelves

Thanks Jeff.

Hey man no problem. I know when a brick wall has been reached

You guys also wiffed on woodies landing in your face...

It was a bad gun mount.

Nah. Think it was the cast that time.

Nope he doesn't need foolish things like gun fit

My bad yo. Forgot hes a supernatural.

On a side note: Duck and deer chili is the shiznit. MMMMMMmmmmmmm

Nice

Yall got me. must have been holes in my pattern and nothing to do with, rushing my shot, not mounting my gun properly, no follow through and all the other fundamentals.

some of yall are quick to tell someone that they are closed minded when you yourself are just as closed minded.

Am I closed minded?

If yes; how so?

well Trout you are just a fool and closed minded because of your comments for patterning a gun

damn