Alright here is the deal guys. I have a 18 mo BLM who has been to the trainer. Came back doing great but overall the dog is a little sensitive to pressure.

I thought he was having a little trouble figuring out the marking/hunting aspect and exactly what I was wanting him to do. He has been through force(by the trainer) but not heavily because of the sensitivity and then I took him through another session prior to season where he did exceptional.

However I figured out yesterday the young dog doesn't really like the cold water and he knows exactly what I am expecting and what he should do. Works great on land but not in the water. Sometimes completely defiant on a water retrieve.

I waded into the water with him yesterday and still couldn't get his confidence back up. Any suggestions on what to do? I plan to continue water retrieves even close to the bank and enter the water with him if need be or start in the water. Should I do a force session in the water? Should I use a lead?

Looking for any help. And there has been zero water aversion until I hunted him the first time in extremely cold temps.

Does he have a neoprene?

I'm no dog trainer...but I've found 2 things that I have to have ultimate patience with when I'm training my dogs, particularly early in their training...guns...and water.

There's probably some guys on here with some good advice for you....just be patient with it....and understand that there are dogs that just never do like the water that much....my GSP is no fan of it.

Good luck!

Have you used live birds? Try getting some pigeosn and trying their feet . Tease your dog with them and throw fun retrieves into the water.

do your best to make it fun for the pup. take a bumper with you to the duck blind and when it is slow use the bumper as a confidence builder. make it a happy bumper (meaning let him break) and get excited and really over animated with him so that he gets excited. once his desire and drive get back up he wont care if he I running over ice or swimming in slush. he will be just focused on that retrieve.

Appreciate the confidence. Yes I have a vest for him.

He has made live retrieves. Haven't really practiced with live birds though. Just in hunting situations and have trained with dead birds.

Get you some live pigeons like said above. Easy to catch. I've caught close to 40 in one night. Just go find an overpass with pigeons on it and take really long handled net and a spotlight and just scoop them off. My pup was terrified of water and the First time I threw a live one in she didn't even hesitate going after it.

a normal live trap will work on the pigeons too, if you have access to the top of a building that they frequent...just bait it up and come back the next day to get the bird.

I like the overpass/net idea...but I bet you'd get some weird looks if someone happened to drive by while you're doing it

The old rule of thumb in dog training is to stop what you are doing if it is not working.

I aint trying to hurt your feelings but if your dog is willing to take a correction from you, actually a full blown refusal to do what you told him, then the Force Fetch was not done correctly or completely either time. OR The time has lapsed so long he no longer remembers the correction that will follow with a refusal.

My suggestion would be to go back to the basics even if it is force fetch again then fire him up on live birds.

The reason I say go back to basics is because at the point you turn him onto live birds, he will be going into the water because he wants to go into the water, not because you told him to. If he does not learn to do what he is told, then what will be the next command he refuses?

After basics are done again. I would introduce the dog to live birds and ignite that flame before I tried the water again. Look up a chain gang for dog training. Basically a a chain pulled tight between two trees. Leash your dog to the chain in the middle of the chain. Then leash two real birdy dogs to the outside of your dog. Start throwing clipped wing live birds in front of the two birdy dogs and watch them go ape$%^& trying to get to the birds. A couple sessions and your dog will be on fire trying to get to live birds. Get that done and there won't be a water problem.

I thought back in the day I was a dog trainer. A friend of mne introduced me to some techniques. I told him I don't need that crap my dog is a bad arse. He challenged me to run my dog on the running W. He told me your dog will give a refusal or have a meltdown in 6 commands or less. Sure enough, first a meltdown and then a refusal. Learning the wagon wheel and running W were two things that kept my pups sharp sharp sharp.

I havent thought of the overpass thing. Will try it though.

Be very careful because the things you do now will affect the future of your dog. As all things do but this is a big one. I have a buddy who retired a dog because after the first bird on a cold water morning he wasn't going. Even force to water wasn't going to make that dog go. So I'll say again, be careful and get some help from someone who knows what they are doing.

Best advice I can give is go back to your trainer and talk to him, maybe even have him go with you one day so he can see the behavior your talking about.

Take him out with a dog you know doesn't have a problem with the cold water.

Thanks for the advice. I have been back to the trainer and continue to work with him through this problem and to continue training my dog.

At this point I am just gathering all the information I can as I know right now this is a delicate time in the process.

To clarify the training wasn't for a complete dog. We stopped short and I have continued to work at home. I wanted help through the basics and to learn from him as I enjoy the process.

Well I took off work early and worked my dog. It went much better than anticipated. Stopped at the creek first and let him run some shallow knee deep water. Then moved to one of my shallow tanks. A little hesitation at the first tank but I heeled him on a lead and we walked back and forth through the tank(him swimming a majority of it). Then threw a couple of short bumpers about ten feet and worked longer from there. It didn't take long before he was swimming the entire tank making a retrieve. Ended up making several long full length swims and I kept it fun. Sent him on the splash and even threw several when I didn't have him at heel.

If it continues to improve like I believe it will, since we had no prior water problems, I will have my daughter throw for me tomorrow then move back from the water and make him drive in. I also think working a few live birds in there will be a great help. It probably didn't help that one of our first hunts(didn't hunt him last year) was 18 degrees off a boat in which he was lost. I had never worked him off a boat and I think overall he was just confused on what I am asking. Hopefully we improve tomorrow as well.

Leonardo, I am not sure what level the trainer stopped the training process but the dog has not completed force fetch. Once a dog is properly force fetched refusal is not an option it is a command corrected by pressure on both land and water. I would ask the trainer how the dog was water forced or if it was.

What I should have said was that we stopped short. I didn't pay for a finished dog. The goal was for a pet and gun dog. I wasn't looking for anything more than a hunting buddy. The training was mainly obedience working toward a gun dog.