i have never hunted with shotguns much so i really dont know that much about them. i have a rem 1100 12 gauge that i have been shooting more and more often and love it. i also have a little h&r single shot 20 gauge that i used to shoot when i was a kid. it kicks a lot harder that the 1100. my kiddos are getting bigger and have had a lot of fun. was thinking of buying a 20 gauge semi auto or pump. rem 870 comes to mind. so question is....aside from cool pump action or safety issues with a semi auto...is there significant recoil reduction in semi vs. pump? i have never shot a pump action so i dont know. money is also an issue as always...but main concern here is having a shotgun they can shoot without significant recoil. i think i can swallow 200 bucks more if it makes that big of a difference. not that interested in a youth gun...i think they will outgrow it pretty quick and im limited experience...they actually kick more.

they all shoot the 1100 but shy away from it after a few shots...and that is with light target loads.

opinions wanted...

thanks fellas

coonsaw

The gas-operated semi uses energy from the shot to push the action back, eject the spent shot shell, and reload the chamber. The result is a lot less recoil on the shooter than with a pump where all this energy goes back to the shooter.

My 7 year-old son shoots a 20 gauge pump just fine with dove loads. I did too when I was his age and I was alot smaller than he is. If a semi auto is within your budget, I would reccommend it and I know my son would prefer it too. They shoot softer and weigh less. My auto 12s are, on average, at least a couple of pounds lighter than my 870s and Mossy 500. A couple are 3+ pounds lighter.

Semi-auto will have less recoil, and they are gonna want a semi eventually, so I would just got with that.

If you don't have the money to buy a nice 20 semi, I would get a cheap 20 single barrel. This will help them focus on the one shell/shot and probably make them better wing shooters (or be like my Dad and let me use the pump, but only give me one shell at a time). When you get the money(or if you have it now), get them a nice 20 Semi.

I would recommend that you reconsider the youth gun. The felt recoil from a proper fitting gun will feel like less than from a gun that doesn't fit. Also, if the gun doesn't fit, they will develop poor shooting technique, such as leaning back to support the weight of the gun vs. putting more weight on the front foot and leaning into the shot.

I would also find some one to reload you some really light loads to help with recoil if that is really needed.

Another route is the 410, but ammo price is ridiculous for it.

My first shotgun was a 20 wingmaster. Loved it. Still do. My dad then gave a 20 1100. Less recoil but weighed more. We quail hunted alot and the 1100 wore me out carrying it up and down hills and stuff. I stopped carrying it. Forty years later my 11 year old son is now enjoying that very wingmaster...

Check out the Weatherby SA-8 in 20 gauge (or 12, really); it seems to me that it would be perfect for your situation. You should be able to pick one up for about $550 new or a little less for a 95%+ used one. It's a copy of the Beretta A301 and is actually a nice, soft shooting shotgun.

what about the Remington® 11-87™ Sportsman Semiautomatic Compact

will the barrel being 5" shorter make a major impact on accuracy? will it limit hunting options significantly? how about with a modified choke and or slugs? that is major problem i have with 1100 i have now in 12 gauge is that sucker is just too damn big for kiddos to lug around but the length is worth it in the long run if the compact is not very suitable for misc hunting.

we are not avid bird hunters and i really dont ever see us going duck hunting, geese hunting, pheasant hunting etc...mainly for rabbits, dove, squirrels, etc... and a few slugs from time to time for piggies. kiddos had fun trap shooting so we will do that from time to time also...

it will also function as a backup gun whenever a buddy comes along and does not have one.

thanks again fellas.

coonsaw

For what it is worth, I prefer a pump over semi. I had a semi and never got used to shooting it. But, I started out with an Ithica 37 as a lad and grew accustomed to its action.

The Remington 1100 is often said to be the most popular shotgun in the US, given the number sold over time. Damn good gun. The 870 is also good. I have friends that can get off three with a pump as fast as someone with a semi, but that has taken years of practice.
The 870 youth model can be retro fit with an adult stock/barrel.
Semis can get picky about the ammo used or they won't cycle, pumps no such problem.
A used 20ga O/U might be a good solution to all your issues.

That Ithaca 37 was a classic. One thing about pumps that should be mentioned- safety. Once you get used to shooting them you tend to automatically pump on recoil in case another bird is flying- so.....you still have a live round in the chamber-no more safe than a double or semi-auto.
I can shoot a pump almost as fast as a semi-auto. Not as fast, but pretty close. A lot of doves I harvest were taken with a second shot from a pump.

Benelli Nova 20 ga, $409 at Academy. Stout pump adjustable with chokes and you can add a recoil reducer if needed. Safety in front of trigger guard and fits right or left handed.

My girls shoot a Legacy Escort 20 youth auto. Has been a great little gun. Very little recoil, spacers for the stock so you can adjust it and also a magazine cutoff so they can load one round at a time like a single shot. I've been real happy with it so far.

Started my first child on a Bantam 20 gauge. Learned my lesson and started my next one on a youth semi. A Weatherby as a matter of fact. Took a lesson from the Bantam and made a new plug for the Weatherby that made it a single shot. When my daughter was older I put the original back in. A Weathery is as light or lighter than any pump yet recoils considerably less. And you can get an adult stock for a very reasonable price.

There are a number of youth semi's out there that are light and cost even less than a Weatherby that have good reps for reliability. Of course there are more expensive ones too. I bought an SX3 compact but my daughter likes the Weatherby better. By adding spacers on the SX3 I was able to get an adult length LOP but have the option of turning it back in to a youth gun with a 26" barrel in about five minutes. I kept it and then bought a 12 gauge SX3 compact and did the same thing. My daughter is grown now and shoots her Weatherby except for duck and then she uses the SX3 12 gauge. The SX3's were a newly discontinued model(Walnut Field) so I got them very discounted at $650.00 apiece total cost.

Sorry for running on.

I'm just going to copy and paste what i said on a different thread

For the people that are saying 870, I hope yall are kidding. Now, if yall are talking about getting an older used 870 then of course, it is one of the best pump guns out there. But, the new ones are just plain junk. Don't take my word for it, just google it. So many of them hang up, over and over again. Every single person who I have taken out this year that just bought an 870 has ejection problems. I always end up lending them my gun. Everybody thinks that since they have an old 870 for all of their life that it would only make sense to go get that gun, when truth be told...Remington has went so far south it's not even funny. I actually repped for the guys a couple years back. Now an 870 Wingmaster is a whole different story.

Same goes for the 11-87s.

And no, I'm not a hater on Remington, I have an old 870 and even have an 11-87.

But, if I were in your shoes.....well, here are some things to consider.

As far as recoil goes, a gas operated semi-auto will be the softest shooting gun. If they are scared of the 12 ga, then go ahead and look at 20 gauges. Now if it were me, I would look at an inertia driven 20 gauge instead of gas. The inertia driven guns kick a little big more than a gas operated semi, but not as much as a pump. It only being a 20 gauge wouldn't be bad at all. Benefits of the inertia driven semis is they will keep clean a lot longer. There are no gases after the shot.

Also something to keep in mind, if they do any kind of waterfowl hunting, an inertia driven gun has its benefits. Less hang ups and as said before the gun stays clean. When I get mud in mine, I just dip it under the water or spray it with a hose.

If yall are just going to be shooting skeet and doves, simple things then a gas will be fine. A gas will be ok hunting waterfowl as well, but just keep it clean.

Most importantly of all, is whatever gun they get, just make sure they hold them first. A shotgun needs to fit the person, they will shoot better and it will feel right to them. Can't stress that enough.

Shortening the barrel on a shotgun doesn't have much of a ballistic impact like it would on a rifle. A longer or a shorter barrel really only affects the handling characteristics and the sight radius. I don't know how "little" your kids are, but, VERY generally, a big sixth grader can probably handle a full-sized shotgun or a small eighth grader.

The 11-87 was developed as a "stouted" version of the 1100 gas system and to address the lack of a magnum chamber on the 1100. It's supposed to be more resistant to wear and corrosion and more tolerant of abuse; you can think of the 1100 as more of an upland/trap gun and the 11-87 as a duck gun. A friend of mine has hunted with hers on the Texas coast for several years. She's pretty abusive of that shotgun... The receiver has been slow-rust blued to a nice, even, red patina by constant exposure to salt water and I get the impression that she doesn't clean it until little bits of burning powder start blowing back in her face. In any event, it's a good shotgun that is soft to shoot.

Nothing wrong with that for kiddos.

I taught lots of kiddos to shoot back when my boys had lots of buddies who wanted to learn to shoot with their parents permission of course....city kids for sure! I used a now out date S&W 1000 gas operated 20 guage skeet gun, that I still have, that has a feature I'm not seeing anymore I really liked for a novice shooter.

When you single loaded the gun & fired it, the bolt would lock back open - or after the last shot from a full magazine. When teaching I'd drop a single round in the receiver and toggle the lock button on the left side of the receiver that allowed the bolt to close and go into battery. Then BANG after the shooter unsafed it, aimed and fired it & back into a locked back position & safe the gun, then drop a single shell in the receiver hit the button and repeat ...and THAT was the sequence I taught....and never allowed a kid to know he could load the mag tube directly.

A buddy's oldest kid, starting @ 10 or 11 never knew that more than one shell at a time could be loaded in the magazine or that you did not have to safe and unsafe the gun in The Correct Sequence in the 2 dove seasons he shot the gun. He is 43 now, and I understand he still uses that safeing sequence on his pump guns....which was the point of the excercise & using a soft kicking gas operated open choked dove shooter he never learned to flinch. Think about how that could work for you.
Ron

That's pretty similar to the way my father taught me to shoot an 870. It's funny that you say that about the man still using that safe-ing sequence because I do the same thing. Even though I'm fully grown and the notion of a full magazine has become internalized and second nature, there's a little relic from my training that still comes back to haunt me every so often... When I hunt with that 870, from time-to-time I will absent-mindedly leave the bolt open after the first shot and start to toggle the safety.

I shoot an 1984 Wingmaster 12g and prefer that to my A400. The thing that a lot of people mess up on is when they pump they don't bring it all the way back, hence ejection problems. I hear all the time, "nah man that's not it" then I fire it and couple hundred times fine.
My A400 actually seems to kick harder for some reason, but it might be metal since I have 5,000 shots through one and 100 through the other.

I have never been able to tell much difference.

thanks for the input fellas. it came down to cost. i picked up a rem 870 youth 20 gauge pump with the laminated wood stock (which is beautiful)for 289 at academy yesterday. dont think i could beat that deal.

look forward to the kiddos blasting away.

coonsaw