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Feb 12th, 2024
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 LEGAL QUESTION....
#473911
11/04/08 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,236
Joshua Lee
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I forgot my ID so my x-girlfriend paid for my 7mag now were seperated...How do I get the gun "legal" just incase she tries to say I stole it? She will sign and papers NOW but may not later so what do I do... 
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Joshua Lee]
#473912
11/04/08 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,925
DFWPI
THF Trophy Hunter
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Uh, that sounds, uh, bad for you.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Joshua Lee]
#473913
11/04/08 10:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Pay her back and have her sign a receipt. That is all the proof you need. Also if you can show she bought it for you as a gift she has no right to it. Just like a engament ring. Try to get one back from you ex and see how that goes.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: helomech]
#473914
11/04/08 10:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,236
Joshua Lee
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No, No... I gave her the $$ it's just in her name.. I found a bill of sale form online I will use.. Is that enough?
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Joshua Lee]
#473915
11/04/08 10:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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There is no name on the gun, just the name of the purchaser. That doesn't prove who owns the gun now, just proves who bought it. I would just get her to write down that she gave you the gun.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: helomech]
#473916
11/04/08 10:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,236
Joshua Lee
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well she registered it in her name, lol... But I will have her sign that bill of sale just wanted to make sure to cover my arse
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Joshua Lee]
#473917
11/04/08 10:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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There is no gun registration. She just purchased the weapon and that paper work remains at the gun store.
But yes the bill of sale will cover you in case she changes her mind. You can just have her say it was a gift and sign that.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: helomech]
#473918
11/04/08 10:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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Quote:
There is no gun registration.
Then just exactly what is that ATF form that I fill out when I buy a gun??????????
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#473919
11/04/08 11:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,236
Joshua Lee
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she registered it with remington not the goverment
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#473920
11/04/08 11:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
Quote:
There is no gun registration.
Then just exactly what is that ATF form that I fill out when I buy a gun??????????
Crazyhorse you really don't know this?
That stays at the gun store unless that weapon comes up in a crime, then the ATF goes to the manufacturer, then to the dealer, then to you. But the government does not have this info.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Joshua Lee]
#473921
11/04/08 11:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Than that would be for warranty, not for anything else.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Joshua Lee]
#473922
11/04/08 11:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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She did not have to fill out one of the yellow ATF Forms???
Did she buy it from an individual or a store?
If she bought it from a store, even a pawn shop, she had to fill out one of those yellow forms, or did you fill it out and she just paid for it?
Not meaning to be difficult or obtuse, but if that gun was bought from any kind of store licensed to sell firearms, there should have been one of the ATF Forms filled out and signed by the purchaser, and that does equate to the gun being registered with the goverment.
If the gun was purchased from an individual, no problemo.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#473923
11/04/08 11:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
She did not have to fill out one of the yellow ATF Forms???
Did she buy it from an individual or a store?
If she bought it from a store, even a pawn shop, she had to fill out one of those yellow forms, or did you fill it out and she just paid for it?
Not meaning to be difficult or obtuse, but if that gun was bought from any kind of store licensed to sell firearms, there should have been one of the ATF Forms filled out and signed by the purchaser, and that does equate to the gun being registered with the goverment.
If the gun was purchased from an individual, no problemo.
Sorry you are wrong on this one. That NICS check does not know if you bought a gun or not. It simply knows that you got approved to buy one. You could have left the store without buying one. The form you fill out never leaves the gun store, unless the gun store closes down. If you don't beleive me send a message to sigfan.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: helomech]
#473924
11/04/08 11:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,236
Joshua Lee
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thanks for the info i will have her sign the bill of sale
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: helomech]
#473925
11/04/08 11:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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So why do we have to fill the things out, and why do the stores have to keep them on file?
Why does the store have to phone into the ATF and read them off all the information about the gun being bought and the person buying it and the form of identifaction they are using.
Why do people get told that the approval did not come thru and to check back later.
I will admit, things have gotten somewhat easier in the last few years, but I do remember the last time I bought a gun, which was about 18 months ago, that I had to fill out the form, way for the phone call and the confirmation before I could take the gun from the store.
Now has that procedure changed that much since 18 months ago?
Vernon, is that true, you can just go into a store pick out a gun, walk up and pay for it and walk out?
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#473926
11/04/08 11:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
So why do we have to fill the things out, and why do the stores have to keep them on file?
Why does the store have to phone into the ATF and read them off all the information about the gun being bought and the person buying it and the form of identifaction they are using.
Why do people get told that the approval did not come thru and to check back later.
I will admit, things have gotten somewhat easier in the last few years, but I do remember the last time I bought a gun, which was about 18 months ago, that I had to fill out the form, way for the phone call and the confirmation before I could take the gun from the store.
Now has that procedure changed that much since 18 months ago?
Vernon, is that true, you can just go into a store pick out a gun, walk up and pay for it and walk out?
They approve you for a gun. You can decide to buy a different gun and the store does not have to call back.
The form is kept in case the gun shows up at a crime scene the gun can be traced to the original purchaser.But the ATF has to go from the manufacturer to the local store then to you .
They get told to come back because something came up on there history. When I was in Louisiana, with my CCW permit I didn't have to go throught the NICS check. I could walk in fill out the paper work and leave with the gun with no phone call.
Now I never said someone can walk into a gun store pick up a gun and walk out. But that doesn't change the fact on who has the paper work.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: helomech]
#473927
11/05/08 12:18 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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Unfortuneately, you are. You have a Concealed Carry Permit, the rules are different for people with those than for people with out them.
Just like the discussion about lumping ALL in-line muzzle loaders together, well, not everyone has a CCW/CHL, what ever you want to call it.
If a person does not have one, then they have to fill out the forms and wait for the approval.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#473928
11/05/08 12:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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That was in Louisana, and now in Louisiana even with a ccw you still have to do the NICS check. I haven't bought a gun in Texas yet, but I am sure even with a CCW you still have to do the NICS check.
But the NICS check is only an approval to buy a gun, once you have that approval you can come back and buy a different gun as long as it is within a certain time frame without get another check. Anyone can get a check done for a .40 pistol and buy a rifle without getting another check. Now of course if you go to a different store they are going to run another one on you to cover there arse, but it is not necessary.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: helomech]
#473929
11/05/08 12:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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During the off season, I keep some of my guns in the pawn shop and then get them out for season.
In Texas, unless you have the CHL, you have to fill out the form and wait for the approval to get your own gun out of pawn.
That is why I have been so anal on this thread.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#473930
11/05/08 12:53 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
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Quote:
During the off season, I keep some of my guns in the pawn shop and then get them out for season.
In Texas, unless you have the CHL, you have to fill out the form and wait for the approval to get your own gun out of pawn.
That is why I have been so anal on this thread.
I never said you didn't ahve to fill out the form. I said the form does not leave the gun store. Also the form does not know what your final choice on guns where. You are misunderstanding what I am trying to say.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#473931
11/05/08 12:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,809
Armadillo Tacos
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Even in Texas if you have a CHL you still have to fill out the form if you buy a gun from a licensed dealer, no way around that one. You are exempt from the NICS check however.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Armadillo Tacos]
#473932
11/05/08 01:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 153
Lawki
Woodsman
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Woodsman
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For the record, the Federal Form 4473 does not register a gun. It is simply the paper record that you attempted to purchase or redeem a firearm from an FFL holder/establishment. The call to the NICS call center is to assure that the purchaser/transferee is legally able to possess a firearm, and the ONLY information given to the call center during the call regarding the firearm is whether it is a long gun or hand gun. Once a transfer is proceeded, the ATF is not allowed to retain information regarding the transfer, other than the NICS transaction number and name, and has 24 hours to purge that information.
Get a Rope!
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Lawki]
#473933
11/05/08 05:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,602
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
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OK, original question, if she bought it for you, and it was NOT a gift, that's a felony called a straw purchase. If it was a gift then its a gift. Surely she bought it for you as a gift not to circumvent the law.
Next, the background check only clears you to accept a firearm by type, long gun or handgun or both. They know you were approved, not what gun, or if you actually received it (however most do, I have had two in the last four years do that).
ATF is SUPPOSED to destroy records after the approval and 48 hours.... However, they do keep a list of the transaction numbers, something like XJH-7874 and look for it when they come to inspect us gun dealers.
They do not know who bought what unless:
A) it's used in a crime or found abandoned and traced.
B) there's a mistake on the form when you complete it. They make copies of these forms from dealers to show that the dealer messed up. (I have no idea if they record them by the buyers name, but they do make copies if I make a mistake).
The new forms are now yellow again. THey were white for the last few years.
All that said, remember the movie "Red Dawn"...when the commies invaded, the first thing they did was go to the local hardware and gun stores and retrieve the records and even mentioned the form 4473's.
That's scary.
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#473934
11/05/08 06:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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So, correct me if I am wrong on this, but in the broadest sense of the meaning of registered, if the ATF can trace a gun back to the original transaction, then is it not basically registered?????
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Re: LEGAL QUESTION....
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#473935
11/06/08 02:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,602
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
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They can't readily find out what guns you have.
They can find out where COLTSMITH #123456789 went from the factory, to the wholesaler,to the dealer, to the original purchaser...
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