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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
#4716731
11/04/13 12:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952 |
The gun is a .308 SPS Tactical w/20" bbl. Bullet was handloaded 168gr A-Max. I had a decent 10pt @ my feeder 100yds. away. I got my crosshairs on him. He jumped out of the pen & trotted straight towards me ending up about 20yds away. Then he stopped, turned 1/4ing towards me & I shot. Bullet went in front left shoulder. His front left shoulder & first few left ribs were way broke & lungs were mush. Now this is what I don't understand. The entry hole was the size of the bullet (not surprised) but the bullet only made it to the left lung. It exploded on the entry shoulder & just bullet frags made it to the entry side lung. No exit, not even close. Not a single drop of blood anywhere. He ran about 60yds & piled up. Even where he died there was only a few drops of blood & they came out of his mouth. Did this happen because he was so close? I had no intentions of shooting a deer @ 20yds but that's the only shot he gave me! I have been told by several people not to hunt w/A-Max & been told by other not to worry & it works great. Now I'm not so sure I should have but am thinking it only happened because the distance was so short. If he'd of ran any other directions I might not have found him due to how thick it is & there was absolutely not a single drop of blood.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten!
10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: LFD2037]
#4716751
11/04/13 12:31 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320 |
Tsx or ttsx no more issues
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: BMD]
#4716773
11/04/13 12:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,578
Wburke2010
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,578 |
How fast are you shooting the amax.
Walter
MW Ranch Services
903-303-4523
Metal buildings, welding, equipment repair, dirt work
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: BMD]
#4716780
11/04/13 12:40 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,964
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,964 |
distance may have played a factor. the A-max is not a hunting bullet for starters.
that combined with the distance you shot it at made the bullet come apart.
a ballistic tip bullet would probably yield the same results at that range.
stop using the A-max and use a reg. hunting bullet and you'll be fine.
I am not a fan of the TSX, they don't expand good at .308 velocities unless you go light and then if you don't hit bone expect a long tracking job.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: BMD]
#4716784
11/04/13 12:41 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,727
603Country
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,727 |
Some bullets aren't ideal for quartering shots. I mostly hunt with Ballistic Tips and I will do my best to avoid a quartering shot. Had bad results with a couple of deer over the years. I collected them all, but like you I had no exit wound. Shoot em through the lungs and you'll do fine. Or, switch bullets. BMD's suggestion is a good one, though a Sierra Game King would probably be all the bullet you'll really need, and it's much cheaper than the Barnes bullets, and very accurate. And there's always the dependable Nosler Partition. Those rascals will penetrate. I sent one in 223 through a pretty good sized pig and I sent it 'long ways', starting at the tail. That impressed me.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: 603Country]
#4716837
11/04/13 01:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523 |
Sounds like what a lot of folks would call bullet failure, but "bullet failure" means different things to different people.
I was NOT failure because the deer took a dirt nap.
It WAS failure because the bullet did not perform in the way you expected.
Everyone will have his own take on it. Mine is very conventional---I think a bullet should expand, penetrate, and exit retaining as much of its original weight as possible.
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/Kqs020H.jpg) "Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: RiverRider]
#4716893
11/04/13 01:28 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 588
Poke81
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 588 |
A-max is the problem. They are great for Targets and will get the job done as it did but not really the best option. Kinda similar to shooting an animal with a Match King. It will work if done right just not really built for the purpose.
Get some Game Kings and call it a day.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: RiverRider]
#4716913
11/04/13 01:34 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,519
tannerlst
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,519 |
I've shot axis with 168 Amax and it worked fine . Chad I believe has used the round on a few animals . It's not the best hunting round but it works .
At 20 yards I would have neck shot him and dropped him right there . Would have at 100 too . I don't like to have to track em .
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: LFD2037]
#4716931
11/04/13 01:41 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,498
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,498 |
The gun is a .308 SPS Tactical w/20" bbl. Bullet was handloaded 168gr A-Max. I had a decent 10pt @ my feeder 100yds. away. I got my crosshairs on him. He jumped out of the pen & trotted straight towards me ending up about 20yds away. Then he stopped, turned 1/4ing towards me & I shot. Bullet went in front left shoulder. His front left shoulder & first few left ribs were way broke & lungs were mush. Now this is what I don't understand. The entry hole was the size of the bullet (not surprised) but the bullet only made it to the left lung. It exploded on the entry shoulder & just bullet frags made it to the entry side lung. No exit, not even close. Not a single drop of blood anywhere. He ran about 60yds & piled up. Even where he died there was only a few drops of blood & they came out of his mouth. Did this happen because he was so close? I had no intentions of shooting a deer @ 20yds but that's the only shot he gave me! I have been told by several people not to hunt w/A-Max & been told by other not to worry & it works great. Now I'm not so sure I should have but am thinking it only happened because the distance was so short. If he'd of ran any other directions I might not have found him due to how thick it is & there was absolutely not a single drop of blood. Bullet did exactly what's its designed todo. VLD would of done same thing also
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: tannerlst]
#4716932
11/04/13 01:41 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 192
MB Wilson
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 192 |
Very weak bullet (just like ballistic tips) at very close range hitting bone spells disaster. Ballistic tips and amax are great behind the shoulder broadside at reasonable velocity, but hitting bone with them is rarely going to get a pass through. Just my experience
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Poke81]
#4716944
11/04/13 01:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,134
Brother in-law
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,134 |
I shot the same gun using the exact same bullets for the last 3 years and took about 18 animals. There is nothing wrong with the bullet. You are hearing opinions because of the story you posted.
You took a less than desirable shot and angle but the end result is a dead deer. I don't believe you have given the bullet a chance before creating doubt. Take some good shots and come back and tell us your opinion.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: MB Wilson]
#4716992
11/04/13 01:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,197
Chris42
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,197 |
Just wanted repeat what everyone else has been saying. "Match" bullets, Like the A-max, have a thin jacket. Its easier to get a uniform, thin jacket than a thick one. This makes the bullet very soft. Hitting bone can cause the bullet to break apart, which leads to short penetration.
A hunting bullet has a thicker bullet which will hold together more for better penetration. Bullets for larger game are either bonded or are a solid copper round (barnes) for even better penetration/weight retention. Not usually needed on thin skinned animals like deer.
The wounds can be quite impressive, but usually much less penetration that a "hunting" bullet. Lots of people use them, and the work, but you need to understand the bullet you are using. If you plan on punching through the shoulder, you should use another bullet. If you want to hit a broadside or quartering away shot behind the should, it will perform amazingly well if you hit the vitals.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: tannerlst]
#4716997
11/04/13 01:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,918
Simple Searcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,918 |
Is it possible that the bullet exploded inside of the deer and a fragment penetrated the heart?
I have seen multiple heart shots with no blood trail. The heart simply quits and it cannot pump blood. Thus no blood trail, or just a very few drops.
Heck I shot a doe last weekend with my crossbow, perfect behind the shoulder pass through, but missed the heart. She went 60 yards without bleeding then bled for about ten yards before I found her.
Sometimes they just respond differently than expected.
![[Linked Image]](https://live.staticflickr.com/4340/36432483774_50a6be0c41_m.jpg) "Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Brother in-law]
#4717001
11/04/13 01:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,519
tannerlst
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,519 |
I shot the same gun using the exact same bullets for the last 3 years and took about 18 animals. There is nothing wrong with the bullet. You are hearing opinions because of the story you posted.
You took a less than desirable shot and angle but the end result is a dead deer. I don't believe you have given the bullet a chance before creating doubt. Take some good shots and come back and tell us your opinion.
I've always used chads reloads , 168 Amax .... And have had no reason to change . It's killed everything that was hit with it . If I get a chance to rifle hunt this year ill be using my savage and some amax's
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Simple Searcher]
#4717016
11/04/13 02:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,197
Chris42
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,197 |
Is it possible that the bullet exploded inside of the deer and a fragment penetrated the heart?
I have seen multiple heart shots with no blood trail. The heart simply quits and it cannot pump blood. Thus no blood trail, or just a very few drops.
Heck I shot a doe last weekend with my crossbow, perfect behind the shoulder pass through, but missed the heart. She went 60 yards without bleeding then bled for about ten yards before I found her.
Sometimes they just respond differently than expected. I'd expect the chest cavity needed to fill up with blood before spilling out.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Chris42]
#4717136
11/04/13 02:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351
southern_fowler
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 351 |
Impact velocity was to high, that bullet is not made to penetrate anything but paper, if you want a good match hunting bullet for the 308 go with the 165gr sierra game king that's all I shoot in my 3 308 wins and have killed everything from javelina to elk with perfect results
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: southern_fowler]
#4717144
11/04/13 02:50 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 22
mudduck70
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 22 |
Agree on the 165gr Sierra Game King, great weight in .308.
AWS
No Birds....No Bird Dogs
Grosvenor, Texas
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: txtrophy85]
#4717245
11/04/13 03:21 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320
BMD
Silver Spoon
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Silver Spoon
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 41,320 |
distance may have played a factor. the A-max is not a hunting bullet for starters.
that combined with the distance you shot it at made the bullet come apart.
a ballistic tip bullet would probably yield the same results at that range.
stop using the A-max and use a reg. hunting bullet and you'll be fine.
I am not a fan of the TSX, they don't expand good at .308 velocities unless you go light and then if you don't hit bone expect a long tracking job.
:BS: Run em light for caliber and do your part and no issue.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: BMD]
#4717317
11/04/13 03:46 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,991
Varget 7-08
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,991 |
I've shot four pigs with an A-Max bullet and have not been impressed. It's SGKs for me.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: BMD]
#4717342
11/04/13 03:57 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,009
senko86
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,009 |
Tsx or ttsx no more issues I've heard nothing but good things about the tsx... I myself have never shot them but I have had good experiences with sst's and right now I'm loving my 180gr trophy bonded tips out of my acc sd, I'm not sure if they make them in lighter grains though
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: Varget 7-08]
#4717360
11/04/13 04:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,744
psycho0819
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,744 |
My BIL had the same results from a few Amax's in his 7mag. I'll echo the same views above; the Amax is a target bullet, not designed with hunting in mind. A Game King at that range might have yielded similar results, but I'll speculate, based on experience with them, that the deer wouldn't have made it as far as it did. And somewhere in the deer, you would have found a sizable hunk of jacket and lead.
Accubonds are great too. I'm not drinking the Barnes koolaide yet, but certainly can't argue with all the positive reports I see here and elsewhere.
Tolerance is the virtue of a man without conviction.
The end of the world began the day it was created, and life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease.
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: psycho0819]
#4717412
11/04/13 04:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952 |
1st off, Hornady says the A-max is also a medium game bullet. I posted proof of that before. 2nd, SGK's were my first choice of bullet but my gun doesn't shoot 165gr SGK worth a crap. This was 1 of Chad's reloads so FPS out of my gun is about 2,620fps. Deer may have been only 15yds away so bullet was really shaggin' @ impact. It may have clipped the heart but the left lung came pouring out in jello form when I skinned him so I know it was liquified. My intentions were for a broadside lung shot but it didn't play out like I planned. I'd of shot him in the neck but my scope was still on x16 because he was looking right @ me all the way from the feeder & I couldn't get it turned down w/out him noticing, I tried. After he turned broadside he started trotting off so I shot him on the move & didn't feel I could be precise enough for a neck shot w/scope on x16 w/him trotting @ only 20yds. I had to pic a spot I thought would anchor him AND not gut shoot him which was difficult w/how hard he was quartered towards me. It made it thru the shoulder and several ribs into the chest cavity but were only talking maybe 4" deep. So is A-Max only good if NO bone is hit?
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten!
10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: LFD2037]
#4717417
11/04/13 04:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952 |
psycho0819, all the Accubonds I've shot deer & hogs w/have punched right thru w/very, very minimal blood trail. All resulted in dead recovered animals but none DRT & tracking(from 45-85yds.) was difficult.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten!
10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: LFD2037]
#4717563
11/04/13 07:09 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,199
tth_40
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,199 |
My best results in .308 so far have been with 150 grain Sierra ProHunters and 165 grain Sierra Game Kings. YMMV
Try the ProHunters.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
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Re: Shot a heavy 10pt w/.308. Not what I expected result.
[Re: tth_40]
#4717761
11/04/13 01:16 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219 |
I've seen similar results with BT'S, Game Kings and SST's. Stay away from heavy bone and your results will be a lot better.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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