Yessir, love those 8mm rounds.

The Sierra 175 grain handloads will take 'em off their feet with a quickness.

Bolt-action scoped rifle: 1 MOA
Pretty much everything else non-AK: 2-4 MOA
AK: Paper plate -- although I have had 4 MOA

Say the rifle will shoot 1/4" at 100. Can you really shoot a 1/4" group in hunting conditions out of a box blind or from your hunting set-up?

I've seen guys say their rifle will shoot 1/4 moa and shoot "same hole all day long". Yet, when you look at the cold bore shots (first round of the moring) at 100 yards in competitions, about 50% of the shooters miss their cold bore shot, including me sometimes. But their rifle/scope cost 3-10 times more than any common hunting rifle set-up. So, you thing a hunting rifle will be dead nuts zero'd and stack 3-5 rounds in the same exact spot from field conditions. No way. Ain't happening.

x2.

Yep, you are right about the cold bore shot. Also you are right that you can't be guaranteed the shot will go in the same place time after time. Too many variables such as wind, temperature, etc.. and especially the guy behind the rifle. But I contend that if you have done your homework and have a consistently accurate rifle and load then you are more apt to place the shot where you want time after time and that is what we are after. In my mind it is about ethical hunting practices. I am not one to spray and pray, take a running shot that is apt to wound rather than kill or shoot when wind is blowing a gale. I will pass the shot. I don't need the meat or trophy bad enough to take a chancy shot.

1 MOA in a hunting rifle is fine by me. More important than accuracy is shootability in my opinion.

A gun I can shoot 1-1 1/2 Moa unsupported is better than a gun that shoots 1/2moa supported, but lacks the shootability in certain shooting conditions(unsupported).

Too many modern rifles are not used for the conditions they were designed for and lack shootability, practicality,pointability, and good handling in all hunting conditions.

Good point. It is all about consistency and confidence in the equipment.

I expect what is necessary.

I have some rifles that I'd like to get more accuracy out of (less than 1") but for the shooting I do with them, 1" will do. I have other rifles that I expect less out of and I get that. It just depends on the gun. I expect more out of my 6XC than I do out of a Marlin 30-30.

Now, that said I think there are way more people that say they can shoot 1/2" groups than can actually do it. Not including any present company here, but I've been to enough ranges in my life and shot around enough folks to know that for 90% of the folks out there, 1/2" isn't a regularity, or at worst an impossibility.

Unless you are a 'steady Eddie' rifle crank it cannot be said that this rifle or that rifle shoots 1/4-1/2" groups at 100 yards.

Most people are just not that accurate themselves. Period. I know some are (so please don't be defensive if you are in that group) but I am skeptical of that the vast majority of the time when I see it. And it is thrown out around here like penny candy.

If my rifles can hold MOA groups I am confident and happy. Because shooting them off of sandbags at the range or at my farm that's the best this shooter is capable of the vast majority of the time.

I think accuracy is important within reason but if you were going to put it on a list of importance for a successful hunt it would be much further down on the list than the time spent on it and the things said about it on here would indicate.

But that's OK too...

You're trying to make the accuracy vs precision argument. Groupings are already a measure of precision, not accuracy. Accuracy is how close the average of a group of hits is to the intended target. Precision is how close a group of hits are to each other.

Only accurate rifles are interesting.

The only sub-par long gun I keep is an old Mosin-Nagant with a barrel that looks like a sewer-pipe inside, and is is only used for plinking, never for game.

On a hunt, there are already plenty of variables that can effect bullet placement. I respect the critters (and myself) too much to deliberately show up with a rifle that adds one more variable, there.

I will not pull the trigger on a game animal with a weapon that I do not know and respect. Having an accurate gun is the first criteria for being a responsible hunter.

At the time your first line was written MOA was off-the-charts accurate.

So don't I just adjust my scope to make a precise rifle accurate? Maybe I am not following....

Yes, a rifle can be precise without having sights or a scope. The scope or sights are what makes it accurate. And they obviously have an effect on precision too if you're using them to maintain a consistent point of aim.

I'm just making the point that saying you want a "consistent" rifle instead of an accurate one is actually a backwards argument. You want an accurate rifle that's as precise as possible.

I must not be understanding your statement, because it makes absolutely no sense to me.
If I take a box of shells to the range and shoot 6 - 3 shot groups and take the measurement of my best group - Is that proving accuracy? The answer is NO. However, it will be an indicator of how consistent you and the rifle is.

Define accuracy and consistency.

From "your" point of view define them as related to rifles and hunting.

I would define accuracy as having the same POI repeatedly every single time.

GR: I'd be interested in hearing what cartridge, bullet, load and rifle you use that shoots 1/4-1/2 inch groups. And what modifications. Have been made to the rifle to to meet your criteria. Also, do you use 3 shot groups as your criteria or 5? At what distances are you confident? And at what distances have you practiced, under field conditions? Thanks.

First of all, you're never going to have the same POI, exactly. In short, a precise gun will have nearly the same POI shot after shot. An accurate gun will have an average POI that's very near the target POI. For the longer version, read below:

Precision is a measure of how consistently the gun can repeat a POI. In shooting words, the size of your grouping is a measure of a gun's precision. If you have a 1" group that's dead nuts on the bullseye or a 1" group that's a foot away, those guns have the same level of precision. On the other hand, one of those groupings is much more accurate than the other.

Accuracy is a measure of where the center of a gun's grouping is in relation to the intended POI.

Really not trying to get into this argument. I only brought it up because someone tried to re-define accuracy as consistency. When in fact, consistency is related to precision.

JJH, all my rifles are stock factory rifles. The only modifications that have been made are to insure the barrel/action is fully floated. I have a SAKO 75 in .223 that consistently shoots less that 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards with Hornady 60 grain V-Max bullets. I have a Browning X-Bolt in 270 Win that consistently shoots 1/2 in groups at 100 yards with Winchester factory 130 grain power points. No need to work up a load for that one. I also have a Tikka T3 in a B&C stock that with handloads will shoot 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. And finally, I have a Husqvarna 640 in 8mm that shoots less than 1/2 in groups with reloads of 175 grain Sierra SP and 48 grains of IMR 4064.

Those are my "go to" rifles. I am especially fond of the Tikka's. They are boringly accurate with factory and handloads. I have one in each caliber I shoot regularly.

Almost forgot, all my rifles wear Nikon SF BDC scopes.

Dude. It doesn't matter, it's semantics.

Who gives a chit how it groups on paper at 100, or where-ever your zero is?

Can a rifle and rifleman hit the target at X distance every time, or all the time? Some can, some can't. I've missed a whole bunch. And I've made some cold bore shots way the hell out there that I impressed myself with. Some on steel some on fur. And yes, I've shot .09" for three at 100 yards, as well as 3/4" vertical x 2" horizontal for five at 500 yards. All that doesn't make a hill of beans if you can't input the proper ballistics, know your scope will correct what it's told to correct, drive the rifle, dial the scope, read the wind, and smack the hell out of the target on the first shot. Because in hunting, the first one is the one that counts. Rarely is there a number 2.