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Five goats in two nights #4546951 09/07/13 02:47 PM
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Neighbor who has a small place(3 acres) that butts up to me on my backside has lost 5 goats in two nights, niece who is a quarter mile away has lost two in the last month, and another fellow has lost 3 in the last couple of weeks. What ever is killing them is not eating them, just killing. all of the neighbors showed bite marks on the throat as the only visible marks. My neighbor is an older Mexican fellow his thoughts are a chuppy, I didn't go there just listened and nodded. My nephew and I are going to try and set up on the carcasses tonight to see if we can find something coming in. There has been a mountain lion spotted around but I'm not sure that is whats killing them. Any thoughts?


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: RickyK] #4546959 09/07/13 02:51 PM
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Mountain lion or yotes. Not a whole lot else it could be. Sounds like yotes to me though.


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: MDMORROW] #4546991 09/07/13 03:06 PM
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Feral Dog maybe? Any tracks around the carcasses?

Maybe not even feral. Just a neighbor who's dog is out at night and bored.

Last edited by splash556; 09/07/13 03:07 PM. Reason: additional comment

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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: splash556] #4547014 09/07/13 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: splash556
Feral Dog maybe? Any tracks around the carcasses?

Maybe not even feral. Just a neighbor who's dog is out at night and bored.


Kind of what I'm thinking. No tracks, the black land around here is dry as a rock and just as hard.

I'm also putting out a few game cams around to see what I can get on them.

Last edited by RickyK; 09/07/13 03:15 PM.

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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: RickyK] #4547081 09/07/13 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: RickyK
Originally Posted By: splash556
Feral Dog maybe? Any tracks around the carcasses?

Maybe not even feral. Just a neighbor who's dog is out at night and bored.


Kind of what I'm thinking. No tracks, the black land around here is dry as a rock and just as hard.

I'm also putting out a few game cams around to see what I can get on them.


My first thought...specially since not eating them...killing for fun...sounds like local pet dogs to me.


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: RickyK] #4547084 09/07/13 03:42 PM
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Feral dog usually don't go for the neck area first. So you would see bite marks and ripped hide in the rib and hind quarter area as well as neck wounds if it was K9.

Are the bites under the throat and jaw? Skin out the neck and head and look for punctures in that area. Punctures on the head and jaw area as well as the bottom side of the neck can indicate coyote. Male coyotes aren't eating as much form one carcass this time of year as they have all but stopped helping feed the pups. Multiple bites and scratches in this same area are indicators of a bobcat kill.

If the puncture marks are more toward the top of the neck behind the head this indicates a Mt. Lion more than likely. Bites will usually be on either side of the neck and larger holes in the hide. You may also see the seperation of the neck vertebrae. Some ML's will kill for the blood more than the meat; especially if they have already eaten recently. They get a lot of their daily moisture needs from blood. And they will kill just to kill, I've seen an ML that killed multiple lambs in one night for what appearded to be just the fun of it.

Also look at the ground around the kill. Best if done before the buzzards get to them. If it looks like a big mess and covers a lot of ground in one area with trenching marks where the goat put up a fight this leans more toward coyote. Also stomach content will likely be spilt in spots around the kill. If it is clean with very little blood at the kill, then more than likely it is a cat. Cats will lick up the blood before they leave a kill most of the time. In summer, older cats won't take the time to drag a kill somewhere as they know the meat won't last through the heat. But they tend to kill in areas that offer cover to eat in peace.

Hope this helps solve the mystery. Knowing what you're after is half the battle. Good luck getting the killer.

Than again it could be like your neighbor said...chuppa whistle


Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: DesertHunting] #4547154 09/07/13 04:19 PM
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Friend/neighbor lost 17 kids backs in springs, believes it was bobcat. Same killing style as you describe.


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: blackcoal] #4547187 09/07/13 04:37 PM
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Setting up on the carcasses sounds like a waste of time and energy if the carcasses are not being eaten. Seems like the prudent thing to do would be to set up on live goats. They are the targets, are they not?

This is a good read. It covers more than just coyotes, but from what is described thusfar, it sounds like coyote attacks.

Quote:
Texas Natural Wildlife
Interpreting physical evidence of coyote predation

INTERPRETING PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF COYOTE PREDATION


http://agrilife.org/texnatwildlife/coyot...yote-predation/


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: Double Naught Spy] #4547313 09/07/13 05:20 PM
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local pet dogs are usually the culprits.

Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: Double Naught Spy] #4547318 09/07/13 05:21 PM
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We use to have goats, and had feral dogs kill a few. They all had bite marks in there necks but we lost alot of the little ones when the dogs would corner them and the little ones would get caught under the pile in the corral. Hope you find out what it is.


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: Double Naught Spy] #4547416 09/07/13 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Setting up on the carcasses sounds like a waste of time and energy if the carcasses are not being eaten. Seems like the prudent thing to do would be to set up on live goats. They are the targets, are they not?

This is a good read. It covers more than just coyotes, but from what is described thusfar, it sounds like coyote attacks.

Quote:
Texas Natural Wildlife
Interpreting physical evidence of coyote predation

INTERPRETING PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF COYOTE PREDATION


http://agrilife.org/texnatwildlife/coyot...yote-predation/


I helped the neighbor round up his remaining goats to move to another property he has. So that only leaves the dead ones that I have access to. I agree a live one staked out or in a cage would be the better idea but that's not happening at the moment.


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: DesertHunting] #4547490 09/07/13 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: DesertHunting
Feral dog usually don't go for the neck area first. So you would see bite marks and ripped hide in the rib and hind quarter area as well as neck wounds if it was K9.

Are the bites under the throat and jaw? Skin out the neck and head and look for punctures in that area. Punctures on the head and jaw area as well as the bottom side of the neck can indicate coyote. Male coyotes aren't eating as much form one carcass this time of year as they have all but stopped helping feed the pups. Multiple bites and scratches in this same area are indicators of a bobcat kill.

If the puncture marks are more toward the top of the neck behind the head this indicates a Mt. Lion more than likely. Bites will usually be on either side of the neck and larger holes in the hide. You may also see the seperation of the neck vertebrae. Some ML's will kill for the blood more than the meat; especially if they have already eaten recently. They get a lot of their daily moisture needs from blood. And they will kill just to kill, I've seen an ML that killed multiple lambs in one night for what appearded to be just the fun of it.

Also look at the ground around the kill. Best if done before the buzzards get to them. If it looks like a big mess and covers a lot of ground in one area with trenching marks where the goat put up a fight this leans more toward coyote. Also stomach content will likely be spilt in spots around the kill. If it is clean with very little blood at the kill, then more than likely it is a cat. Cats will lick up the blood before they leave a kill most of the time. In summer, older cats won't take the time to drag a kill somewhere as they know the meat won't last through the heat. But they tend to kill in areas that offer cover to eat in peace.

Hope this helps solve the mystery. Knowing what you're after is half the battle. Good luck getting the killer.

Than again it could be like your neighbor said...chuppa whistle


The bits were in the throat and jaw area on all 3 that were killed last night. Very little blood anywhere, mainly small seepage form punctures. No other wounds noticed, no blood on ground visible. The area in very open and next to a well traveled County Road, one goat was within 100 yards of the road and the other two were no more than 200 yards from the road. The area around the dead goats did not appear be disturbed. The grass is very short, over grazed, and dry. I have some special chuppra lure I can put out but I'm not sure I want to catch one wink


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: RickyK] #4548527 09/08/13 01:41 AM
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Sounds more bobcatty from what you are describing. Watch your roads for tracks cats will jump in them to travel, especially big ones. How big are the goats?


Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: DesertHunting] #4548749 09/08/13 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: DesertHunting
Sounds more bobcatty from what you are describing. Watch your roads for tracks cats will jump in them to travel, especially big ones. How big are the goats?


No more then about 45lbs.


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: RickyK] #4548796 09/08/13 03:09 AM
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I can come next week with call and light

Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: Brother in-law] #4549045 09/08/13 04:47 AM
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chupakabra. no doubt

Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: maxscm] #4549140 09/08/13 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: crowkiller51
local pet dogs are usually the culprits.

This

Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: RickyK] #4550199 09/08/13 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: RickyK
Originally Posted By: DesertHunting
Sounds more bobcatty from what you are describing. Watch your roads for tracks cats will jump in them to travel, especially big ones. How big are the goats?


No more then about 45lbs.


A bobcat can handle that size with no problem, especially a mature tom. Just sounds way to clean of kills for K9 or yote.

Hope you solve the problem soon.


Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: DesertHunting] #4550207 09/08/13 07:26 PM
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How many of your neighbors have dogs that freely roam their property? Dogs that get bored will unite with other neighbor's dogs and start to run in packs. They will kill for fun, not for food, most have been domesticated so long that they don't know that eating is part of the chase.


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: dogcatcher] #4550226 09/08/13 07:35 PM
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Found a whole herd of goats killed in one night down by the border. Nothing was eaten. It was a long tail cat and 2 kittens. We figured she was teaching them how to kill.

Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: scalebuster] #4550277 09/08/13 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: scalebuster
Found a whole herd of goats killed in one night down by the border. Nothing was eaten. It was a long tail cat and 2 kittens. We figured she was teaching them how to kill.


Happens a lot more than people realize. Largest kill on record by a ML is 192 ewes in one night in 1933. Sited Here Biggest kill I've seen is 18 in one night.


Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: DesertHunting] #4550456 09/08/13 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: DesertHunting
Originally Posted By: RickyK
Originally Posted By: DesertHunting
Sounds more bobcatty from what you are describing. Watch your roads for tracks cats will jump in them to travel, especially big ones. How big are the goats?


No more then about 45lbs.


A bobcat can handle that size with no problem, especially a mature tom. Just sounds way to clean of kills for K9 or yote.

Hope you solve the problem soon.


Thanks DesertHunting! Didn't see anything last night, odds were low, to many people wanting to be involved equals to much scent and noise. Used to be all farm land around here but over the years the farms have broken up and now lots of smaller acreage places. Like I said, I have a few camera's up so maybe we can ID what we're dealing with and then make a plan, or maybe somebody will see something. OR..... we will get enough rain so we can see track is this rock hard ground. You can ride a club footed horse across it right now not be able to tell.


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Re: Five goats in two nights [Re: RickyK] #4551237 09/09/13 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: RickyK
Originally Posted By: DesertHunting
Originally Posted By: RickyK
Originally Posted By: DesertHunting
Sounds more bobcatty from what you are describing. Watch your roads for tracks cats will jump in them to travel, especially big ones. How big are the goats?


No more then about 45lbs.


A bobcat can handle that size with no problem, especially a mature tom. Just sounds way to clean of kills for K9 or yote.

Hope you solve the problem soon.


Thanks DesertHunting! Didn't see anything last night, odds were low, to many people wanting to be involved equals to much scent and noise. Used to be all farm land around here but over the years the farms have broken up and now lots of smaller acreage places. Like I said, I have a few camera's up so maybe we can ID what we're dealing with and then make a plan, or maybe somebody will see something. OR..... we will get enough rain so we can see track is this rock hard ground. You can ride a club footed horse across it right now not be able to tell.


Not a problem. If I can help any more just let me know and I'll do what I can.


Re: Five goats in two nights( Updated with pics!!!) [Re: DesertHunting] #4564794 09/13/13 04:15 PM
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I put my camera out over looking my special chuppy lure and it worked! In the first two shots, of a three shot sequence, you can make out to the left a HUGE cat passing by. In the third and finial shot you can get a good look at it!



















Not sure how to handle a chuppy this BIG!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: Five goats in two nights( Updated with pics!!!) [Re: RickyK] #4565007 09/13/13 05:34 PM
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