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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Hard mouth?
#4516690
08/27/13 04:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294
8pointdrop
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294 |
Trapped some Eurasians to get some real feel for the dog this year. She's started chomping on them, out of no where. So I put her collar on, send her she picks it up and starts chomping on the way back. I'll give her a correction with the collar usually just beeps and vibrations are all that's needed anymore. She drops the bird and returns to heel. I send her and we repeated with the same out come 4-5 times. Then I thought how confusing that must be. "Boss sends me for bird, I pick up bird, collar thingy says NO! Boss sends me again, collar still says NO! WTH?" She didn't do it last year, none of these birds were crushed.   Thoughts?
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: 8pointdrop]
#4516745
08/27/13 04:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,367
kindall
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,367 |
Dove seems to bring out the chomping in some dogs.
Have you taught her HOLD?
Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: kindall]
#4516759
08/27/13 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,059
MS1454
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,059 |
If you have not collar conditioned then yes the dog would be very confused. A more sensitive dog would have shut down on you.
I'll take a Black Female every time.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: MS1454]
#4516827
08/27/13 05:26 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 99
NTXDuckHunts
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 99 |
Was she fresh out of training last year when she was not chomping..Was this the first time in a year she has seen birds or really worked on FF drills..Was she FF along with collar and stick fetched..If not CC to force that was not a good thing to do and work with a bumper then go to the bird..Just don't fling a bird out of the blue after a year (If thats the case) and expect a nice dog not to go nuts
North Texas Dog Trainers/North Texas Duck Hunts
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: NTXDuckHunts]
#4516852
08/27/13 05:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294
8pointdrop
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294 |
She will hold her big green head bumper with dove wings taped to it for several minutes without chomping, but its a large bumper. She will deliver to hand every time, never drops birds or bumpers. She was FF and conditioned over 2 yrs ago. Last yr she retrieved over 100 dove and 50+ ducks without crushing any. We run drills all year long with bumpers, just for fun.
Yes that's the first live bird I've sent her on since January. It was intended to be a "steady" exercise. Trimmed the doves flight feathers then had my son run the launcher while I shot with a 22 and rat shot. Guns and flopping birds always make her want to break, so we have been working through it. Same exercise and a bumper, no chomping.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: 8pointdrop]
#4517715
08/27/13 11:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,367
kindall
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,367 |
I have one that can be hard mouthed on dove. I just worked hard with him on hold. I would have him do it while walking on heel, and on sit. It didn't matter what I put in his mouth, he was to hold it with out moving his mouth. Any chewing and I would tap him under the chin, or on the bridge of his nose. I guess he is not a sensitive as your dog, because I transferred the command over to the ecollar. If he thinks about mouthing a dove I can command Hold and Here, followed with a nick on a low setting if he tries it again.
Most of the time its the cripples that get him wound up.
Shopping with your husband is like hunting with the game warden.
Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: kindall]
#4517783
08/27/13 11:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 514
maximumintensityretriever
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 514 |
A proper force fetch program will fix this in the dog. Is he really chomping or is this just an excited mouth? If he is chomping you will be hearing bones break. Either way the solution is the same but one means you have a bigger problem than the other. Stop giving collar pressure without a verbal command. If the dog has been collar conditioned and you decide that you want to use collar correction to solve this issue the command should be nick "here". That will solve the confusion issue because you are giving indirect pressure.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: maximumintensityretriever]
#4517861
08/28/13 12:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294
8pointdrop
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294 |
Working Hold as we speak. She will hold while I play on the THF.  Thanks for all the help everyone. I don't claim to be a really good dog trainer, a good dog makes up for my down falls I think. Maximum, yes she's breaking bones, and I'm giving the here command while giving the nick(2-3 on my tri tronics), I think she'd eat it if I let her. I dont think she's dropping it from the nick, but from my tone on the command.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: 8pointdrop]
#4518514
08/28/13 03:12 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 514
maximumintensityretriever
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 514 |
She's a beautiful girl. Give us a little background. Did she previously hunt and not have this problem? Do you have access to anyone who has experience in FF in your area? Do you have any program that you follow? The head hold in the pic is what prompts me to ask.
Don't fret. This is a solvable issue but you have to have the right resources.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: maximumintensityretriever]
#4518884
08/28/13 10:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294
8pointdrop
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294 |
She's a beautiful girl. Give us a little background. Did she previously hunt and not have this problem? Do you have access to anyone who has experience in FF in your area? Do you have any program that you follow? The head hold in the pic is what prompts me to ask.
Don't fret. This is a solvable issue but you have to have the right resources. She's retrieved a few hundred dead birds without ever crunching one. She rolled the feathers off a few dove last year, but not crushing like she's doing now. The lightest nick on the collar and less serious tone with my Here seemed to work better yesterday. After 4 runs my last bird was toast though. I'll trap more and keep you updated. She only does that head hold when she is panting heavy. We'd just ran some double blinds and it was hot. Any other time she holds on the body.
Last edited by 8pointdrop; 08/28/13 10:37 AM.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: 8pointdrop]
#4519089
08/28/13 12:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 514
maximumintensityretriever
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 514 |
Gotcha. Kind of an old school trick for a hard mouth dog is to make them retrieve a stiff bristled brush. I have even known a few people to use a wire brush but I wouldn't go that far. Just fire her up by throwing a few fun bumpers and then slip the brush in on a throw or two. Once she's got the idea that she doesn't like chomping, bring the bird back in. There is no substitute for FF but if you are trying to do something before the dove opener, this might work for you.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: maximumintensityretriever]
#4519206
08/28/13 01:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294
8pointdrop
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,294 |
Thanks bud, I'm keeping it fun for both of us.
She's my first hunting lab and she already makes me look like I know what I'm doing in the field, when I hunt with guys that aren't used to having a lab on hunts. I'm sure seasoned hunters would be able to pick out some of her short comings, but when I send her on a 50yrd blind around my buddies, she makes me proud for sure.
I defrosted a mallard that I'd planned to mount, but I just had to know if she is going to chomp every bird. Sent her on it, she was super pumped about seeing a real duck again, 0 chomping or chewing, so I guess it's just dove. Maybe because they are smaller? Or she just likes the taste of dove.
We will work through this during season. Thanks everyone.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: 8pointdrop]
#4519348
08/28/13 02:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 252
txdogman
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 252 |
Doves have very loose feathers, she's probably clamping down trying to keep the feathers from releasing in her mouth. Lots of dogs don't like retrieving doves for this reason. That is why she retrieves other birds with 0 chomping. She also may be craving some blood. If all she eats is dry dog food, so feed her a ball of raw hamburger before you go on a hunt. Some times they'll clamp down and suck out the blood because of this craving. Thanks bud, I'm keeping it fun for both of us.
She's my first hunting lab and she already makes me look like I know what I'm doing in the field, when I hunt with guys that aren't used to having a lab on hunts. I'm sure seasoned hunters would be able to pick out some of her short comings, but when I send her on a 50yrd blind around my buddies, she makes me proud for sure.
I defrosted a mallard that I'd planned to mount, but I just had to know if she is going to chomp every bird. Sent her on it, she was super pumped about seeing a real duck again, 0 chomping or chewing, so I guess it's just dove. Maybe because they are smaller? Or she just likes the taste of dove.
We will work through this during season. Thanks everyone.
I can make 'em go! and I can make 'em whoa!
God makes 'em DO!
I carry the gun and blow the whistle.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: txdogman]
#4522699
08/29/13 03:13 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 272
Tex-x
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 272 |
Caster oil...inject it into a bird...they'll chomp once
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: Tex-x]
#4524484
08/30/13 01:09 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487
Birdhunter61
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 487 |
Doves feathers tend to fall out easily and stick in their mouths as well and this will cause them to get mouthy.
Robby
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: maximumintensityretriever]
#4524588
08/30/13 01:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,638
Greg
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,638 |
Gotcha. Kind of an old school trick for a hard mouth dog is to make them retrieve a stiff bristled brush. I have even known a few people to use a wire brush but I wouldn't go that far. Just fire her up by throwing a few fun bumpers and then slip the brush in on a throw or two. Once she's got the idea that she doesn't like chomping, bring the bird back in. There is no substitute for FF but if you are trying to do something before the dove opener, this might work for you. Agree...Don't make the mistake of throwing steel brushes... Guy told me to try that.. Not good
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: Greg]
#4527362
08/30/13 11:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 127
Taylor Everett
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 127 |
Doves have very loose feathers, she's probably clamping down trying to keep the feathers from releasing in her mouth. Lots of dogs don't like retrieving doves for this reason. That is why she retrieves other birds with 0 chomping.
+1
Most dogs don't like the loose feathers and oils on a dove. Always takes mine a few birds to get in the grove again every year and he is 7.
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Re: Hard mouth?
[Re: Greg]
#4530282
09/01/13 03:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 18
Mike Murphy
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 18 |
Take a dove and push fininhing nails through it in several places. Fix it where when the dog bites down it will get it in the mouth. Cured bird dogs with this method before.
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