Tyler County was a 2 buck/2 doe County before AR's and I think they could have improved the age structure by just lowering bag limits to 1 buck/1 doe instead of AR blanket rule!!!

I dont give a rats pututy about horns but i do about the numbers! Deer were abundant before AR with a few nice bucks around and lots of small 4pts and 6pts and lots of does. Im all for AR and getting bigger bucks but since TPW had to stick in the spike tage and the 2 doe tags they did nothing in my area than contribute the down fall of the herd. To many deer are being taken period. I have shot 3 deer in the 5 or 6yrs that AR has been in play and the numbers of deer go down every year. You cant make your neighbor stop killing deer if TPW says they can legally do it! The ONLY way is to limit the tags they can use. All me and seadog and the others want is to increase the numbers of deer we see and stop killing off the young spikes and all the does that will have the next generation of bucks and does. Believe it or not we want the same as u pro AR guys except it aint working in our areas and we think we can fix it by lowering the amount of deer that be taken in our countys. We have said it many times before; IF ITS WORKING FOR YOU THATS GREAT BUT IT AINT WORKING FOR US! All we want to do is fix it for us and have the same chance at some big bucks that yall have .

Several people in this thread have already said they work great in our Counties even though they don't live nor hunt in said County. I wonder what kind of magic they used to determine this? On one hand you have people that hunt in the County saying they don't work and on the other hand you have people that don't live or hunt there saying they work great. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who knows what they're talking about. The problem is they act just like my little sister used to when we were kids. When she realized she was wrong in an argument she would avoid all questions from then on and keep saying the same thing over and over in hopes that I would just go away. AR's suck where I hunt and are doing damage. That's a fact, not a theory like the pro AR guys have about it.

They could have left things alone and it would have been fine. There's a reason the majority of that county didn't need restocking and a lot has to do with ppl not being able to shoot what they can't see bc the woods are too thick for the dog hunters to even shoot them out.

My neighbor ain't gonna manage squat no matter what. Neither are most "neighbors". So, ARs at least make them leave the forkies and little 6s and 8s alone so they can grow.

Like I say y'all may be right on the spike overharvest and narrow rack selection arguments in some areas. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on those because I just haven't seen it. I have read several reputable studies that say it's virtually impossible to change gene pool structure in native deer herds so that augers against those scenarios.

If ARs keep the shoot em all crowd from killing the young bucks and those who want more intense/precise management go MLD that seems like a win-win to me. Like I say, I just know what I see on my place and the positives I hear about ARs.

My gut tells me in areas that have problems ARs are easy to blame when more likely than not other factors are at play.

Like I said I don't have studies or figures but neither do you. I have stated my thoughts. I grew up in east TX, have hunted there for 40 plus years, and have owned 400 acres there going on 10 years now.I talk to people and hear what they say. They work great in my area and others say the same.Those things are not "theories" or "magic".That's about all I can do or know short of being a wildlife biologist.

You accuse people of ill motives, stupidity, immaturity, etc. Yet from what I have seen you are the first to resort to name calling and insults. You always just come down to "I am right and you are an idiot". That's not an argument it's just pounding your fist on the table.

You're right it's not a theory. It's hearsay. What name have I called you? You don't know your arse from your elbow when it comes to where I hunt but you're the first one to jump in and say how great ARs are here. You avoid any and all questions and spew second hand knowledge. I did call you selfish because I believe you are. I offered up a plan that would only benefit kids and seniors and you still said no. I guess I should not expect better from people. Especially ones that voted a regulation into place and didn't even know the very regulation that is supposed to allow bucks to age instead allows 2 yearling bucks to be killed. If I voted blindly for a regulation that contradicts itself at every turn I suppose I might defend it blindly also.

"Selfish." "Screw loose." "Don't know your arse from your elbow."

Basically anyone who disagrees with you is to be ignored, their experiences summarily dismissed, and insulted.

Too many hoops to jump through on MLD and quite a few folks would rather not have to deal with a gov agency just to hunt. FWIW, the last MLD lease I was on still allowed a kid's first buck to be anything they wanted it to be.

Since you bring up the whole can't change genetics, then why the need for the spike tag as a means to cull when it is deemed the buck numbers are already low. I see a lot more of them spike tags getting used once doe days are over...off hand I can think of 6 ppl who killed spikes off your neighbors place.

Will ARs protect a percentage of bucks...sure. Can it open the door to get twice as many shot...yep. Will there be some bucks that never get shot...yep. Will there be yearlings shot...yep. Do ppl now have more opportunity to kill deer that are in trouble with extra seasons..yep (though I won't complain about the additional youth opportunities...I'd give them all archery season & month of Jan if I could).

Here's a scenario for you

You are the boss of an electrician crew and you need to hire another electrician.

1st applicant is an electrician and has been doing electrical work for 30 years.

2nd applicant has a friend who is an electrician and he also reads about electrical work sometimes.

Who would you hire?

No sir, just anyone that disagrees with me about hunting at a place they have never laid eyes on. If the shoe fits....

aint life fun?

If I were you I'd be trying to rope that buck so you can tie him to a tree

The shoe has never fit. If you actually read what is there instead of reacting to want you think is there I have never challenged what you say about conditions at your own place. In fact, I have accepted what you say as true.My discussions have regarded ARs generally and Rusk county as a whole. In fact, a quick check of the TBG awards shows Rusk county to be well represented. Again, I see and get texted pics of big deer from Rusk county every year. None of that is "magic". It is fact.

Now, I have surmised that my belief is that many of the problems many see on their own places could be due to other factors, but each time I have done so have noted it as surmising (albeit based on the reasons I have given).

Unlike you, I have never stated I have all the answers. But at least I engage in reasonable discussion.

i thought about going to little eastfield juco up the hwy and trying to buy a couple roofie's to put in the chum pile the night before opening morning, then just hope he dont make it over the fence....

If your reading comprehension were better you would see my background puts me in the "1st Applicant" category. But you only see what you want to see.

I'm hanging polident over a cpl scrapes.

A lot there. Again, the spike tag was a sop to the meat boys. I don't see it abused. Heck, there is a raging debate among the best deer men in the state about the need to shoot spikes anyway. The whole "spike tag abuse" deal is a tempest in a teapot IMO. I get opinions differ.

The only fenceline neighbor I have is a 40 acre scope of woods that is lightly hunted anyway so I don't know your reference there. If it is Boggy they are doing something right. Heck, whoever it is more power to 'em because my place is doing great-maybe goes to show spike killing is the way to go.

Edit: Maybe you're talking about the NF? My biggest "neighbor"....

Really? So how many deer per sit did you average seeing in rusk county per ARs? How many do you see per sit in rusk county after ARs? I'm not talking about your buddies, you.

You say there could be a problem on my lease but ARs are not the cause. Nothing else has changed. That would lead a reasonable person to the conclusion that ARs are the problem. Take a 1 deer county to a 4 deer county and expect the numbers to stay up when they were mediocre to start with? Brilliant!

If you really want to debate this I would make it very easy on you. I could ask one question at a time and you answer it. Then you ask me one question at a time and I'll answer it. You want to? I highly doubt you do because you don't answer any questions about it. You only skirt around it and pretend to know it all. So, you want to debate one question and answer at a time? You can start or I will?

i'll go....emmitt or barry?

I hunt East Texas, and I didn't see a buck last season. OK, I did see one spike and a lot of does. This is in reality because a neighbor decided to cut timber off his property....which started a week before deer season! Seriously!!
A lot of the hunters in my area are still in the old way of "if its brown, its down" way of thinking.
IMO, trail cams do more for taking mature bucks, if you see one on camera, I think your more likely to let smaller bucks pass in fear of maybe spooking the one your hunting.
I took what I thought at the moment to be a nice 8pt a couple of years ago. To my dismay, it did have ground shrinkage, and when measured it was legal...but barely! lol
With that said, I have camera's now, and I KNOW what bucks are in the area! It will be a big advantage when decision time comes this year for sure!!

Was talking about NF....there really is no debating spike killing if the topic is carrying buck numbers over, after all, there's a structure health problem, not a gene problem being addressed. And you have to assume people will use those spike tags b/c it's a buck that can be shot and people will shoot the first one they see...just like they shot the first one they saw pre-ARs. If there was no cultural change in hunting that would have fixed the "problem" on its on them how in the world could AR win in the popular vote.

Cams over the years have shown there were plenty of older bucks, you just rarely saw them. Ppl not running cams would just assume there were no bucks.

Can you beat a "Dead Horse" to death that doesn't meet ARs?

on the bright side, if the neighbor lets that clearcut do its thing, in 2 years it'll provide good bedding cover and browse.