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Re: Recommendations on Lease Rules [Re: Bobby Frey] #4371929 07/08/13 02:39 AM
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Erathkid Offline
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"Conceived around a campfire under the haze of alcohol with figures scribbled in the dirt with a stick". up


Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it.
Don't text and drive.
Re: Recommendations on Lease Rules [Re: Bobby Frey] #4372101 07/08/13 03:54 AM
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Halfadozen Offline
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PM me. Be happy to send you my list of lease rules after many years of managing ranches. For our group it has always been about passing along the heritage of hunting to the youngsters, but protecting the land and other paid guns rights as well. Has worked splendidly for over 15 year now.


Freedom is a fragile thing ...Those who have known freedom, and then lost it, have never known it again.
-- Ronald Reagan


Re: Recommendations on Lease Rules [Re: Halfadozen] #4372147 07/08/13 04:12 AM
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rifleman Offline
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Here's one I have on file

Quote:

_____________
HUNTING RULES AND REGULATIONS
2008 – 2009
Revised 11-12-08


SQUIRRELS - October 1, 2008 - February 1, 2009 & May 1, 2009-May 31, 2009
• Daily Bag Limit: 10
• Squirrel hunting will be limited to the areas described below in the Stand Areas section.
• Dogs will be allowed after deer season.

ARCHERY DEER – September 27, 2008 – until all MLD Permits are used or to February 28, 2009, whichever comes first. When all MLD permits have been used, the season will end regardless of the date.
• In addition to the available hunting areas described below in the Stand Areas section, bow hunting will also be allowed in the Primitive Area.
• See “General Deer Season” for guidelines on harvesting bucks and does.

YOUTH ONLY WEEKENDS DEER – September 27 & 28, 2008 and October 4 & 5, 2008
• Children 16 years old and under.
• Youth 16 and younger will be allowed to harvest a State Legal deer by Bow or Gun. (See restrictions below under bucks, item 2.)
• Youth will be the only person allowed to harvest the deer(except for bow hunting); adults are there for support and legal requirements.

The following is excerpted from Texas Parks and Wildlife and is adopted by FLC for 2008-2009 deer hunting season.
• Ages 12 through 16, must successfully complete a hunter education course or be “accompanied”* by a person 17 years of age or older licensed to hunt in Texas.
• Under 12 years, must be “accompanied”* by a person 17 years of age or older licensed to hunt in Texas.
* “Accompanied” means being within normal voice control of the licensed hunter.

GENERAL DEER SEASON

October 11, 2008 until all MLD Permits are used or to February 25, 2008, whichever comes first. When all MLD permits have been used, the season will end regardless of the date.

BUCKS
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department has strongly recommended we harvest only mature (age 3.5 or older) bucks regardless of points. This will allow the bucks to reach maturity and express their maximum potential. It is also a management component of our MLD III permit. In order to maintain our status as an MLD III property, we must make every good faith effort to follow our management plan. It will be the responsibility of the individual hunter to determine the age of each buck that he or she deems to be a harvestable buck. There are educational materials in the clubhouse (videos, posters, etc.) that will aid in aging bucks while in the field. All hunters are strongly encouraged to use and study these materials in order to better distinguish mature bucks from the immature (2.5 years and less) bucks.

• Bucks will be taken using the MLD permit system. Permits are located in the Supervisor’s clubhouse. This year we will be allotted (30) “Management Buck” permits and (15) “Cull Buck” permits.
• “Management Bucks” are 3.5 years or older with a minimum of 8pts
• “Cull Bucks” are defined as follows:
*Spike bucks – See 1. below
*Bucks 3.5 years old or older with less than 8 points
1. Spikes 1.5 years old and older are encouraged to be taken, and are to be counted as “Cull Buck”.
2. Youth hunters (16 years old and less) harvesting their first buck will be granted leniency for harvesting less than a mature buck. However, youth hunters will not be allowed to harvest a buck less than 1.5 years old.

3. A nubbin buck, even if antlerless, is not allowed and will count against a membership’s allotted bucks.
DOES
Does shall be taken using the MLD permit system. This year we will be allotted (75) doe permits. Harvesting a doe less than 1.5 years old is not allowed.

DEER HARVEST
• Each membership will be allowed to harvest (5) deer.
• Does may be taken anytime throughout the season.
• A “Cull Buck” will be counted towards a membership’s 5 deer allotment and towards a membership’s 3 buck allotment for the 2008-2009 season.
Example: A membership may harvest:
• 5 does and 0 bucks or
• 4 does and 1 buck or
• 3 does and 2 bucks or
• 2 does and 3 bucks

MEMBERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO HARVEST 2.5 YEAR OLD (GOAT HORN) SPIKES VS. 1.5 YEAR OLD SPIKES IF POSSIBLE!!!!!

Harvest Records will be reviewed by the B.O.D. at the end of December. If the club is not on track to harvest as recommended, action may be taken to allow memberships to harvest more than the four (5) deer limit.

FINES FOR RULE VIOLATIONS IN DEER HARVEST
1. Harvesting a 2.5 year old buck, fine will be $100.
2. Harvesting a 1.5 year old buck, fine will be $150.
3. Harvesting a 1.5 year old buck with 8 or more points, fine will be $150 plus the member will lose the 2nd buck for the 08-09 season. If said buck was the members 2nd buck of 08-09 season, member will loose 1 buck for 09-10 season.
4. Harvesting a .5 year old button (nubbin) buck, fine will be $200.
5. Harvesting a doe less than 1.5 years, fine will be $200.

A repeat offender will be fined an additional $100. A repeat offender is defined as a membership that takes 2 rule violating deer in 1 season or a rule violating deer in 2 consecutive seasons.

Jawbones are routinely aged throughout the season. If a jawbone is aged that violates our harvest rules, the member’s hunting privileges will be immediately suspended for the season until the fine is paid.


STATE LICENSES, MLD PERMITS FOR DEER
• A State License tag will not be required to be attached to the animal this year because of our MLD status.
• MLD Permits will be kept at the clubhouse. MLD Permits will be immediately attached at the skinning rack.
• NEW: “Cull” buck tags will be available for use on Management bucks harvested at _________.These are issued by TP&W. Just use a buck tag for cull bucks.
• Deer must be transported from the woods to the skinning rack immediately, no exceptions.
• For those individuals that access their stand area from outside the club gates should take a permit and attach it in the field. Any unused MLD permits MUST be returned to the clubhouse at the end of the hunt.
• PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THE MLD PERMITS HOME WITH YOU OR LEAVE THEM IN YOUR VEHICLE.

HARVEST RECORDS & OBSERVATION RECORDS FOR DEER
• Harvest Records - Harvest records are critical to a successful management plan. 100% compliance is mandatory. Harvest record must be completed in full after each deer kill and are the responsibility of the member. The Harvest Record Book is located in the Supervisor’s clubhouse. Harvest records includes the following:
2. Deer Number. Simply the numerical order of the deer on the harvest record.
3. Live Weight. Do not estimate, use the scale for exact measurement.
4. Field-Dressed Weight. Field-Dressed weight is the animal’s weight after removing the guts only. The hide, head and feet should still be attached for a Field-Dressed Weight. Do not round off or estimate Field-Dressed weights, please use the scale.
5. Sex of the animal.
6. Antler Measurements. Antler measurements should be measured to the nearest 1/8”. This is also an important measurement for our MLD permit.
7. Lactation, simply yes or no.
8. Hunter’s name, Member’s name and Stand Area where killed.
• Jawbones - Both lower jawbones must be removed and tagged with a small metal tag stored in the Supervisor’s cabin. The deer number from the harvest record and members name are required on the tag. Please clean off all hide, skin and as much meat as possible from the jawbones. Please place your jawbones in the cooler basket, marked “not aged”.
• Scale - should be put in supervisor’s cabin after use to protect it from weather. Do not dress deer while using the scale, it will damage it.
• All Bucks must be scored by a member of Forest Lake’s scoring committee or
have documentation provided by a certified Texas Big Game scorer.
• All buck deer must be photographed. A camera is provided for this purpose and kept in the clubhouse. Take 2 pictures – 1 from the front and 1, ¾ side view.
• If the deer is taken to a taxidermist, you are still responsible for returning both jawbones or submitting a signed letter stating the age of the deer by a State Biologist or other recognized expert.
• Observation Cards - These are also critical to the management plan. Cards should be filled out year round. According to our TPW Wildlife Biologist, observation cards are most important from July to December. If you are unsure of an animal’s gender, tally it as unknown, do not simply call it a doe. Cards are located in the sign in shed.


HOGS
July 1, 2008 - February 25, 2009 or until the end of any recognized hunting season other than spring squirrel season. Hog hunting will be restricted to those areas specified in the Stand Areas section.

March 1, 2009 or the end of the general deer season as defined above – June 30, 2008. Hogs may be hunted throughout the club. See the Stand Areas and Guest Rules section for restrictions. Hog dogs will be allowed after the close of deer season except during the month of April (Turkey Season).

• Hogs compete with deer for the same food source, therefore there is no limit on hogs and members are encouraged to shoot hogs. Please remove dead hogs from the woods and dispose of in the gut pit if the hog is not to be cleaned. Hunters are encouraged not to waste game, if you are not going to keep the meat, consider a donation to a charitable organization such as Hunters for the Hungry or donation to other members.
• Hog Traps are permitted (preferably without tops to prevent any mortality to deer which may get trapped)

ALLIGATOR -Open Season this Year for Members with tags(September 10-30, 2008)

DUCKS – DOVE - QUAIL
According to State and Federal Regulations.
Ducks, dove and quail hunting will be limited to the areas described below in the Stand Areas section.


COONS - RABBITS
According to State Regulations, night hunting is permitted. Coon hunting with dogs will be allowed after the close of the General Deer Season.

TURKEY
April 1, 2009 – April 30, 2009 (3) permits/tags available.
Bag Limit – 1 (gobbler only)
No baiting of Turkey’s. Any hunting areas for Turkeys must have all feed removed between March 15th and May 1st.


STAND AREAS

A member generally is restricted to hunting his own assigned area, an open or un-assigned stand area, a club stand, or a stand for which he has previously acquired permission to hunt, with only the following exceptions:
• Club Stand Rules are posted in the sign in shed.
• July 1, 2008 – February 25, 2009 or the end of any recognized hunting season other than spring squirrel season, permission must be received from the stand owner to hunt that area.
• Any stand area may be hunted for squirrels, dove and quail after March 1, 2009, on a first-come-first-served basis. Deer stands, corn feeders and food plots should be avoided unless specific permission to hunt them is granted by the "owner" member in advance.
• March 1, 2009 or the end of all recognized hunting season (except for spring squirrel season & spring turkey season) – June 30, 2009, any stand area may be hunted for hogs. Deer stands, corn feeders and food plots should be avoided unless specific permission to hunt them is granted by the "owner" member in advance.
* An unassigned stand will be treated as a club stand.
• A suspended member’s assigned stand will be treated as a club stand.
• Any feeder or temporary stand placed on Club stand areas or Open stand areas by any member is considered available for use by all members.

Chalkboard - Members and their guests must have their name on a stand area before leaving for hunting or working. They must erase their name at the end of the day when that hunt is finished. The board will be erased at the end of the day after ensuring that all hunters are in safely.

If any member is not signed out of their hunting area by 9:00 P.M. it is the responsibility of all members at the club to check on the welfare of this hunter.

Club Stands - may not be signed out before 5:00 am.


GUEST RULES
Guest privileges are as follows:

• Maximum of 2 hunting guests per day, year round.
• May use only 1 club stand at a time.
• Member is responsible for the actions of their guests.

A member can forfeit his/her allotted deer permit to another member and/or members guest if he/she does not want to kill the allotted deer. Member donating must be present at the club when other members or guest are hunting on his/her memberships allotted deer. The member initially allotted the deer is responsible for the action of the other member or his/her guest.

GENERAL RULES

Member hunters and their guest(s) are subject to and must abide by all Club, Local, State and Federal hunting rules and regulations that may apply.

Member Sign In Register
For safety purposes, each member must register themselves in the log book at the sign in shack. All information on the log book is required to be filled in by the member. Sign in when entering the club, and out when leaving the club. Guests’ names must be listed in the ledger. Failure to sign in or out will result in a warning from the B.O.D. on the first offense and a $30.00 fine on each re-occurring event.

Conduct
Ungentlemanly conduct is not allowed by the club by-laws. Alcohol abuses, foul language, verbal or physical confrontations, inappropriate magazines or videos are not welcome in the club. Members should not have to worry about what their spouses, kids or grandkids are seeing and/or hearing at Forest Lake. All members are encouraged to report any acts of ungentlemanly conduct to a Club Director.

Firearm Safety
For the safety of other members and small children; LOADED FIREARMS ARE NOT ALLOWED on ATV’s, in vehicles or carried loaded within 150’ in the following areas:
Sign in shack, Campgrounds, Club houses, Skinning rack, and/or Camper trailer area.
It is recommended that you Unload your hunting weapons when you leave your stand area!

Road hunting
Safety is our primary concern and road hunting is not permitted, even the appearance of road hunting will not be tolerated. Scoping of deer or hogs on a road should be limited to the use of a spotting scope or binoculars. (Various small non-game and reptile species are allowed to be taken on roads with small caliber weapons, handguns or shotguns only at short distance and steep downward shooting angle, while observing common courtesy to fellow hunters during prime hunting season and hunting hours.)

Hunter Courtesy Road Travel
Members should travel the most direct route to and from their stand, especially when roads are wet, to avoid unnecessary and costly road damage. Joyriding through other members' stand areas will not be permitted between the months of July and February except by permission. Joy riding of ATV’s is not encouraged during hunting times for respect of members hunting.

Other General
Only center-fire rifles and pistols, shotguns with slugs, muzzle-loading firearms and legal archery equipment may be used. Buckshot is not allowed in possession at any time.

Gut Pit
The “gut pit” should be used for biodegradable materials only. Members are responsible for the disposal of their own carcasses and guts on a daily basis.

Walk in Cooler
Field-dressed animals may be hung in the cooler for no more than one week (7 days). Do not adjust the thermostat. Be sure the cooler door stays closed. Place shavings or paper under carcass to soak up dripping blood.

Litter and Trash
The club should be kept clean of litter. A dumpster is available for trash disposal.

Fines
Fines for workday absences are currently $50. Fines for rule and regulation violations will be determined and administered by the Board of Directors.


Re: Recommendations on Lease Rules [Re: Bobby Frey] #4372729 07/08/13 03:07 PM
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Texas Dan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bobby Frey
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: Bobby Frey
A lease that doesn't allow guests is ridiculous.


It's ridiculous to have a lease where everyone who hunts is a paying member?


I get your point, but if you are paying to hunt, why couldn't you bring whoever you wanted out to enjoy the hunt? Half of hunting is being out there with friends and family, not the actual killing. On my land, I bring all sorts of friends to give them the opportunity to see things that I was fortunately brought up experiencing. I pay taxes instead of lease fee's...


If members could be trusted to only bring guests who carry knowledge and values that match those of the members, life is good. The problem is, people often change once you put a gun in their hands. IMO, the best leases are those which provide their members with a break from all the hassles that go with work life and life's unknowns. And whenever someone brings a guest, you always wonder if that's about to change.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: Recommendations on Lease Rules [Re: rifleman] #4372735 07/08/13 03:10 PM
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Navasot Offline
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
Never been on a "trophy" lease that wouldn't allow guests. The deer #s need to get shot, doesn't really matter who's pulling the trigger. The problem comes when a person/people start thinking of all the deer on the place as "their" deer.


^yup

Re: Recommendations on Lease Rules [Re: Texas Dan] #4372749 07/08/13 03:13 PM
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Navasot Offline
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Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: Bobby Frey
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: Bobby Frey
A lease that doesn't allow guests is ridiculous.


It's ridiculous to have a lease where everyone who hunts is a paying member?


I get your point, but if you are paying to hunt, why couldn't you bring whoever you wanted out to enjoy the hunt? Half of hunting is being out there with friends and family, not the actual killing. On my land, I bring all sorts of friends to give them the opportunity to see things that I was fortunately brought up experiencing. I pay taxes instead of lease fee's...


If members could be trusted to only bring guests who carry knowledge and values that match those of the members, life is good. The problem is, people often change once you put a gun in their hands. IMO, the best leases are those which provide their members with a break from all the hassles that go with work life and life's unknowns. And whenever someone brings a guest, you always wonder if that's about to change.


A lease that dosnt allow guest is scratched off the list right off the bat... imo.. not to the point of saying I want to bring everyone out and kill everything but if its going to be that controlling right off the bat then whats going to happen down the road... guest hunting off the paying leasers tags is very fair imo... but different strokes for different folks

Re: Recommendations on Lease Rules [Re: Navasot] #4372755 07/08/13 03:14 PM
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rifleman Offline
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I had leases just to entertain guests.

Re: Recommendations on Lease Rules [Re: Navasot] #4373080 07/08/13 05:14 PM
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Texas Dan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Navasot

A lease that dosnt allow guest is scratched off the list right off the bat... imo.. not to the point of saying I want to bring everyone out and kill everything but if its going to be that controlling right off the bat then whats going to happen down the road... guest hunting off the paying leasers tags is very fair imo... but different strokes for different folks


Agreed. It all depends on the overall chemistry of the lease members and what they value most. Our's is a closed lease with a gentlemen's agreement that doesn't allow for guest hunting. IMO, much of that comes from guys who look at the lease as a place to get away from much of what you have to put up with at work. While we can't control who we are forced to work with, we need not worry about who we have to hunt with. You are far more likely to be invited out for dinner, than you would to be invited to join our lease.

We also have very longstanding and positive relationships with landowners in the area and just don't want to put those in jeopardy by having a guest make some bonehead decision. Some things are very difficult if not impossible to overcome when it comes to landowner relationships. Once you consider the landowner's position when it comes to allowing people that he or she doesn't know to access their property, you may think differently about guest hunting.

Simply put, we view the landowners property as if it were our own. I would never expect a guest in my house to bring along whoever they wish, whenever they wish.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: Recommendations on Lease Rules [Re: Texas Dan] #4373188 07/08/13 05:48 PM
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Dave B Offline
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Glad I own my place now. No need for a lease and a landowner that turns his horses loose in my hunting area to drive the big deer back to his area after I paid him for the lease. up I will never need to pay for a lease again. Happy, Happy, Happy!

Last edited by Dave B; 07/08/13 05:51 PM.


Re: Recommendations on Lease Rules [Re: Dave B] #4376529 07/09/13 10:03 PM
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Here's another take on guests. I know a rancher who has a photo ID of each paid hunter, a photo copy of their drivers license, and also knows what kind of vehicle each of them drives. It's the easiest way he knows to control trespassing and poaching. I think that if his hunters started insisting on bringing guests, he'd simply quit leasing out because the money is not as important to him, as controlling the access to his property.

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