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In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
#4354669
06/30/13 01:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75
Washington Ag
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75 |
Hey Team,
So bear with me here because I feel as though I have to give the full story just to make sure I don't miss anything in the diagnosis.
About 5 years ago I bought a '96 toyota tacoma 4x4 extended cab with the 3.4L V6. I hardly did any maintenance to it for these first 4 or 5 years because I was finishing my undergrad. Well, now I got a garage and house so I got time to put a little effort into it. For the most part I got more time than money so I'm a heavy do it your-selfer.
Phase 1 - About a month ago I was driving around getting some oil for an oil change and on my way back from the house I saw a flicker on my dash but then it was gone...I decided it was something on the road instead but then looked again a second later and saw that my water temperature gauge was through the roof. On full red. So I through on the heater and boogied back to my house about 2 minutes away and the temperature fell below the red. Upon arrival at home I found that I was bone dry on water so I filled her up but still it overheated. I decided it was the thermostat. (Let me preface this with the fact that I have not kept a good eye on my coolant over the last 5 years, but I've driven my truck across the country from here to washington state 3 times...and that needle never moves from normal temperature once it gets there-so I knew something was wrong)
Phase 2 - I was about to turn 185XXX miles and the timing belt was last changed at 85XXX so I decided I would go ahead and replace the timing belt, water pump/thermostat, and belt tensioners and pulleys and all fan belts. (I parked my truck immediately after the overheat and didn't drive it again until I had replaced all this stuff). This all went great, I had no problem installing everything and I said a little prayer and cranked 'er up and everything ran smooth, no overheating, the repair job went great.
Phase 3 - I'm at the vet school parking lot getting ready to go home and my GF says "gosh, there sure is an awful lot of white smoke coming from your tailpipe...(me not wanting to acknowledge another problem I'm like ahh thats nothin...) Well let me tell you upon investigation this did not seem like normal exhaust. And it wasn't like it was a cold day either. It definitely appeared like I had a water vapor coming out of my exhaust. After about 5 minutes of driving however it would clear right up. (Side note here if you are tracking with me - I had been regularly monitoring my water volume...I think I have been slowly losing some, and I had been heavily monitoring my oil...it had remained the same level)...I continued to drive my vehicle and all of a sudden I began to have issues after it sat for a while with starting it, kind of acted like a bad battery, but I got out my voltmeter and it said that my battery and alternator was good.
Phase 4 - Well, I'm almost 95% sure I know what my problem is *head gasket* and I'm really hoping it isn't what I think it is, but its parked in the garage ready for some long labor --- and I'm beginning to think that that flicker of light I mentioned in the beginning of my entire story was the oil temperature (Oh **** light!) and my block got heated for longer than I thought it did.
So whats your diagnosis? I love the occasional maintenance job that's a bit of a challenge like a timing belt, but when I have to spend to much time under the hood I remind myself why I'm not a mechanic and in another line of work. (Point is, when I tear into this baby I wanna make damn sure I know what the problem is and I'm not doing an exploratory surgery)
Main Summary: I got white smoke coming out my tailpipe when I crank up my truck and it lasts for about 5 minutes then it goes away. I may be losing small amounts of water. My oil level has stayed the same. During these happenings my truck has started to act like its having a hard time starting. Whats up, is there hydro locking going on...and most importantly are there any toyota gurus out here that canlend some help if needed or point me in the direction of a good tutorial? My manual is bad and the Internet is producing no results for my particular situation.
TIA y'all are awesome
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: Washington Ag]
#4355212
06/30/13 11:59 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 751
Core-Lokt
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 751 |
You probably do have a blown head gasket. I hate to say it, but my guess is you've also got warped or cracked heads.
If you're going to pull the heads to replace the gaskets, I would definitely have the heads Zyglowed (I'm presuming they're aluminum).
Sorry, bud. This doesn't sound inexpensive. Do a cost analysis on worst-case scenario repair vs. rebuilding vs. a junkyard engine purchase. Good luck.
Core-Lokt:The deadliest mushroom in the woods
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: Core-Lokt]
#4355507
06/30/13 03:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75
Washington Ag
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Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75 |
Yeah. I was afraid of this. I'm hoping that I will be able to get my head machined somewhere in town and hopefully no cracks not sure how obvious said cracks would be. Thanks for your 2 cents.
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: Washington Ag]
#4356209
06/30/13 10:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,648
furdown
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,648 |
Yea, I would agree, either get em checked, put some new heads on or stick a rebuilt engine in it. It all depends on what the cost difference is.
�There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never cared for anything else thereafter.�- Ernest Hemingway
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: furdown]
#4357425
07/01/13 03:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,569
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,569 |
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: Core-Lokt]
#4360152
07/02/13 06:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 136
progress4m
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 136 |
You probably do have a blown head gasket. I hate to say it, but my guess is you've also got warped or cracked heads.
... I agree 100%; To OP: first, I would recommend contacting Toyota (you can start with local dealership) and see if they can check you truck (your VIN) and see if it falls under head gasket campaign Toyota had for 1996 3.4L engines; if you are lucky you may get a new engine for free out of it; I am sure you understand that considering the age and mileage of your truck it is a long shot, but I would try it anyway; Just be nice and polite and ask for help; keep in mind that it was not a recall (as it is not a safety issue)… it was a goodwill campaign.. If that fails, and you still want to try to repair it yourself, join one of the Tacoma forums and I am sure you will find all info you are looking for; here is one of them: http://www.tacomaworld.com
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: progress4m]
#4360463
07/02/13 08:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75
Washington Ag
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75 |
Thanks progress. I'm actually in the middle of tearing it apart right now, I'm ever so close to the head gasket I can smell it. Its just taken me a while to do the digging.
I did call toyota here in College Station and gave them my VIN and the lady couldn't find anything. Is there a way I could check for sure if my stuff was covered under this good will campaign other than simply calling them? Would they lie to me? Anyway they said it didn't fit any recalls... maybe thats why maybe they didn't check the campaign?
I have used tacoma world a bunch and they were really helpful when I went in to do my timing belt and water pump but to be honest no one seems to be super knowledgeable online about this anyway for this specific engine and what not. I may be in over my head a little bit, but really I can't afford not to be.
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: Washington Ag]
#4360489
07/02/13 08:13 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,907
luv2brode
Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,907 |
honestly not a hoorible job I would do comp test pressurize cooling system and look for drop it does sound like you have a bad gasket/head but minor at this time that's y it clears up, when I say minor just referring to the amount of the leak. I would tear it down have heads checked if good have them gone thru replace gaskets and be done with it. head job is not that difficult buy a good manual. must find a good machine shop/ some will rob you blind and not fix anything. recently had this issue myself.
i am cancelling my subscription, i am tired of your issues!
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: luv2brode]
#4360538
07/02/13 08:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75
Washington Ag
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
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Posts: 75 |
Thanks for the confirmation. Yeah I've been feeling like the white smoke that cranks up when I start the engine cold is before the engine has heated up and basically not sealed the gasket yet, but once it heats up the gasket gets a better seal, so hopefully it has a lot to do with the gasket and I don't have to buy new heads. Although I will have them re-milled I guess? I'm not sure what the terminology exactly is for it. But I'm looking for a good place in college station to do it. Aside from them reshaving the surface do you think I should also have them heat it up and check for cracks? or would those cracks maybe be visible if in the unlikely event that the head developed a crack.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. You're the first one who hasn't said that this job is for a rocket scientist.
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: luv2brode]
#4360783
07/02/13 10:22 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,262
RICK O'SHAY
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,262 |
Well.... you're in the process of tearing it apart.... check the intake manifold, aluminum manifolds are notorious for leaking.
DISCLAIMER ATTENTION: Your decision should NEVER be based SOLELY upon my advice, recomendation, or opinion.
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: Washington Ag]
#4360791
07/02/13 10:26 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,262
RICK O'SHAY
THF Trophy Hunter
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"they" have a way to check for cracks, I don't know what they do these days on aluminum, but they have a way to do it.
you see the smoke when you crank it because that's the water that has made it into the cyl since you cut the engine off.
DISCLAIMER ATTENTION: Your decision should NEVER be based SOLELY upon my advice, recomendation, or opinion.
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: RICK O'SHAY]
#4361062
07/03/13 12:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 927
BillD
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 927 |
I would stick it back together, put some bars leak in the radiator and trade it off. I love sticking it to a car dealer or in other words do unto them before they do unto you. Good luck to you....
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: BillD]
#4362212
07/03/13 02:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,569
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,569 |
I would stick it back together, put some bars leak in the radiator and trade it off. I love sticking it to a car dealer or in other words do unto them before they do unto you. Good luck to you.... Your realize they are gonna take that car and sell it to someone else right? You just fixed it good enough to pawn it off on the next guy. Scum.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: redchevy]
#4362416
07/03/13 03:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75
Washington Ag
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75 |
haha, I leave for a second and now there is name calling and all sorts of stuff going on. I actually wasn't far away from the bars leak. But for some stupid reason it seems more practical for me in the financial position I'm in to have it torn apart in the garage and doin it myself. Besides I feel as though I should end up with a damn good understanding of how everything works in there.
I love my little toyo. I hope it all works out for the best and she runs for another 100XXX miles once I get it in. I will be replacing all gaskets on the way back out of the engine. I'm hoping that the head gasket blow is somewhat obvious so I know that I'm fixing the thing that got me.
I wish I had a toyo guru living in College Station that had done this 10 times already and had time to come by and show me how its done though. Little steeper learning curve when doing it alone.
Thanks for the help guys. Ah wait, heres a question fuel injectors...they are pretty cheap, I think 10 bucks a piece for my rig...should I replace them on the way out? I figured if one were to go bad in the near future replacing them now may be cheaper? Or are they likely to keep trucking along?
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: Washington Ag]
#4383760
07/12/13 05:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75
Washington Ag
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 75 |
Update: finally got down to the head gasket I'm hoping that the steam cleaned looking piston face is the confirmation that I needed that the. Gasket was bad in this area and I also saw left over 1-2ml of coolant laying on the piston face. What y'all think? Here is the right side : Here is the left side:
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: Washington Ag]
#4384077
07/12/13 07:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22,630
Cast
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22,630 |
Clean that gasket surface up real good and then use a steel straight edge to visually check that there is no warpage and the gasket face is flat. Take the head to a good machine shop for a 3 angle valve job. Buy good gaskets, there is a difference.
Cast I have a short attention spa
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: Washington Ag]
#4384247
07/12/13 08:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,294
oldoak2000
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,294 |
Be sure to use NEW head bolts; Head-gasket set for this engine is pretty pricy - don't chimp & re-use the old bolts (already stretched) or you'll be back in to re-do this again in 10-12 mos, if that.
Clean the bolt holes in block exactly as recommended, and use torque-wrench and procedures exactly as recommended on re-install (including lubing the bolt threads if recommended & with exactly what they say to use).
Use premium gaskets as well (don't buy the cheapest ones you find on ebay) if you want the repairs to last.
Definitely replace the valve seals as well while you have head off; (will be included in kit) - the old ones will have burned on the overheated heads, and will leak oil if not replaced. Fairly easy to do while head are off; a real PITA to do while heads are bolted on.
If you shortcut on any of this, the engine will run, but very unlikely you'll make it 1 season before it will go to leaking again, if it even makes it 2weeks.
Also, be sure and find whatever leak you have/had in system (that caused this gasket-burnout) - or you'll burn the new ones out too.
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: oldoak2000]
#4384277
07/12/13 08:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,705
toolman
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,705 |
Pay real close attention to the head in the areas between the coolant passages and the chamber, and also directly between the valves for cracks. As stated above, have the heads checked for warpage and have them resurfaced, and also check the block, I have seen them twist when overheated. One old mechanics' trick for finding cracks is to go get a can of lighter fluid and squirt it around any suspected cracks. The fluid is light enough that it will wick through even the smallest crack and be visible on the back side. Sometimes it's hard to get to the area you want to check though.
Old age ain't for sissies!
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: oldoak2000]
#4384293
07/12/13 08:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,294
oldoak2000
Extreme Tracker
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Oh, the 'hard time starting' in your original post is because there was coolant in the cylinder(s), which doesn't compress.
Leaked in there from blown head gasket & accumulated, while engine was not running. Some got pushed past rings, rest went out the exhaust on your next startup, and went down exhaust pipe; once exhaust got HOT enough the glycerin (from coolant) vaporized, causing the thick white smoke for a while, then would taper off.
Be sure to change oil & filter asap - even a little coolant in the oil that you can't see is bad ju-ju for your crank & rod bearings, lifters, etc.
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: redchevy]
#4384725
07/12/13 11:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,498
Erathkid
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I would stick it back together, put some bars leak in the radiator and trade it off. I love sticking it to a car dealer or in other words do unto them before they do unto you. Good luck to you.... Your realize they are gonna take that car and sell it to someone else right? You just fixed it good enough to pawn it off on the next guy. Scum. "Car"ma is a beach. Don't do that. I used to sell cars. What if a car Dealer did this to you ? Sounds like a blown head gasket. Doesn't have to be a MAJOR blowout, more like a pinhole. I've had the same happen on my wife's car.
Last edited by Erathkid; 07/12/13 11:58 PM.
Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it. Don't text and drive.
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: Erathkid]
#4385328
07/13/13 05:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 40
RockinT
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 40 |
Good job taking on this repair by yourself. Good luck. Take your time. Good advice above.
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Re: In need of head gasket repair and tutorial
[Re: RockinT]
#4401877
07/19/13 05:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,615
MELackey
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,615 |
I own an auto repair shop in the Katy area. Some decent advice here. Don't cheap out. use new head bolts. they are torque to yield and are only good for one use. Feel free to drop me a note if you get stuck and I can try to get a good answer for you. Take the heads to a good machine shop (call the Christian Brother's Auto in College Station and ask who they use). Have the heads pressure tested to make sure you didn't crack a head (we see that regularly). Tow is the time to get new valve guide seals and valve seats if you need them. The machine shop puts all of that in for you while they are working on it.
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