Like weeds... I think they weigh more than my son.

I personally think so... good role American pointers :P

Also, they are doing pretty good separated. A little whining, but that's what I expected. Currently 1is just outside the back door while the other is just inside of it. Might stick with this a couple more days before moving their kennels. Thanks bill for the kennel. It has helped a ton. They are doing OK with house training. Wife now realizes how much work 2 is and is now thinking about maybe finding a home for one of them. Problem is we love them both

I thought these pups had a problem with eating grass, until last night. I was walking one, Dot, when all of a sudden she stopped midstride, tail tight, foot up, nose poited, stiff as a board. she had been smelling something, and was pointed to a small patch of weeds in my back yard (so I know there are no birds in there). she held this point for 5 minutes, I watched my watch. I walked up and she didn't budge. I kick the patch... out flies a grasshopper which she goes nuts over trying to catch. I have to assume she smelled the dove that was there a few minutes before, but is this an ok thing for a 5 1/2-6 mo old dog? am I in need of buying a few live birds quick and letting them chase them through the field over by the house? There's still a lot of puppy in both, as they jump a lot on me family members and think the leash is a toy.

Also on the crate training, how much whining is normal. One seems very content being in the kennel outside till she sees her sister come out to use the potty. but Haley, which we have had inside, howls at night so bad that my wife took her kennel outside. that didn't stop the howling until I came out and gave a gentle shake to their kennels. could it be that they need to get used to the kennel before bringing the kennel inside. both are learning they can't just pee anytime, but still need to pee every 15-20 mins. today will be their first work day... I hope they will be ok.

I have a great spot to train on the nw side of town in cypress if anyone wants to join. High grass, ponds, creeks, brush, woods, ect. I am new to training and I have a 6 month old lab.

Well either its not a big deal or noone wants to tell me how bad it is that my dog is pointing bugs

Its not a big deal.

And cypress I plan to be getting in touch with you about that spot

Thanks MS I was actually getting worried...

My now deceased pointer used to stalk and point dragon flies every summer up in Canada. Kept her sharp if anything.

i would suggest that you do NOT read Gun Dog. Wolters was a retriever guy who was writing his first pointing dog book and it is the perfect way to do most everything wrong. I would suggest getting with some trainers from the Gulf Coast GSP club and take a look at gundogforum.com. ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS. Please don't train them like a retriever!!! Lots of free runs, basic obedience, HERE, KENNEL, but not SIT. Let them chase all game for now, begin to range, search, explore, get some independence. Do NOT take them anywhere near a gun range unless you want a gunshy dog.

I would suggest Ferrel Miller, Delmar Smith, great books by both.

Thanks for the confidence booster cactus... My little Dot loves her some grass hoppers... and both love chasing doves and larks flying in and around our yard.

I did read Gun Dog. It's not that bad, outdated yes, but once I found a copy of perfect start perfect finish, it was apparent that the order and general concepts are mostly the same... just slightly updated. Neither like their kennel enough to go instantly when I tell them. but one I get a hand on them they usually are getting quick to it... Here... hit or miss.. to be honest I haven't spent the time I should have up till now. I did teach Sit for control purposes. I understand the reason not to, but when you have a 3 yr old... a 6 month pointer can do a lot of damage in a blink of an eye. add another, and it is almost unbearable.

I'm going to start conditioning them to a 22 blank pretty soon. although I think with what they've been around most of their lives, they wont be too worried about it.

OK, so let me re-phrase and I'll leave it alone, READ Gun Dog, it'll teach you what not to do, but don't use it other than as firewood. It's garbage for a pointing dog.

Teaching a pointing dog to sit is a recipe for problems when you go to teach whoa and break them on birds, they will revert to a known secure command SIT and often, if soft at all, will sit on point, creating a problem most new trainers don't know how to fix.

If you teach PAD, in other words get on your bed NOW, it's a command that has no issue in field work. Whoa is also a control command that will stop a dog that does not dovetail into other issues. KENNEL is a learned command that just takes time. Once most dogs are a year or so, say KENNEL and they'll fly to the truck to get in the dog box, head to the outside kennel, or scream into the plastic vari kennel, if taught correctly.

Your last sentence is the concern for me, outside loud noises do not get a dog ready for birds and gun shots. Loud gun shots without something for major distraction can cause gun shys QUICKLY. However, if a dog is in full chase of a bird, blank gun is shot over and over for a few weeks, then bird in chase and a shotgun, until you are killing birds for them, there is next to no way the dog will be gun shy.

Just shoot guns thinking it will acclimate them, well, they'll make nice house pets!!

Oddly, I used ONLY "Gun Dog" to train a fabulous GSP. He pointed and held, retrieved ducks and geese from water or land, had a very tender mouth, was a TIRELESS hunter, and a wonderful companion. He used to ride my Vespa with me, sitting at my feet. He would do ANYTHING asked of him. He died in '75, and I will miss him until I die.

"Gun Dog" didn't train your GSP...you just got a dog with good genetics.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

Took the pups out to the pond in our neighborhood. decided to let them go for a swim. Problem is they were swimming to try to catch dragonflies and flying birds... I spent the next 20 mins chasing Dot (who is a little more difficult to handle usually, but alone is usually good about HERE.) well once she saw a bird on the ground she was in full chase... I don't think she heard me screaming at her she was running so hard... then hit the water and swimming aweful trying to jump while in the water... finally caught her... Let Hailee go... (seeing as she will recall usually every 5 mins.) she got on chase for a lark and chased it all the way around the pond almost back to us (about 1.25 miles running) saw me, looked up and saw the bird, and chased it back around the pond again. Next time I saw her she was about 40 yds away and lost sight of the bird in a tree... I yelled Here... and she comes trotting up like she was playing in the yard... I then walked them back the half mile to the house... only to have them both still full of energy and wanting to play in the yard... I was fairly upset about the disregard to me when I called them so they did not get to run around anymore till dinner... which both were very affectionate knowing I was upset with them... I hate to say it, But i'm probably going to be trying to get rid of 1... 2 is too much time and distraction for the other... both are independant and jealous of one another meaning I get 1 calmed down and petting... the other is going to run up and jump on them... Is this an unreasonable thought after only 3 months of having them?

Yes

OK MS you got me... I have no idea if this is a facetious yes answer, a real yes answer, or a i'm not reading this gibberish answer

How old are they? I think it may be time to introduce the e-collar.

Between 7-8 months

Maybe wait until September. I may get a few birds in October to work Cracker on for the October NSTRA trial, and to just for the heck of it. Get back in touch and come over with your pups. We'll see how they react around quail.

Is there anything I need to do to break them of running flighty birds?

I'm thinking woah training might be in store for them as soon as I get Here down better...

You should have the collar conditioned by the first of October. Plan to bring a cc if not.