I was shooting my 340PD and the front fell off.

This story started in early April and I held off posting anything about so S&W would have a chance to resolve the issue, but I feel like I may get the shaft on this.


The little strip of metal you see in some of the pics is a piece they put in the top of the frame above the forcing cone to prevent flame cutting the top strap. I didn't lose it because it was held in by the cylinder until I opened it.














Now, for some details.

My dad and I both had 340PD revolvers and we changed the batteries in our CT grips. We adjusted the lasers to match point of aim at about 12 yards, and then went shooting to make final adjustments. My first shot missed a a 2'x3' cardboard backer at about 15 yards. Since I didn't see a hole in the paper I checked the bore and it was clear.

I moved up to about 7 yards and tried again. This time the bullet hit about a foot low. The next shot I used the sights instead of the laser and hit about a foot high. I was wondering if I'd suddenly developed a serious flinch and decided to fire the last two rounds and see what would happen.

On round number four I saw something falling in my peripheral vision. I was shooting under a cedar tree and sometimes chips of bark will fall so I didn't think much of it until I noticed that I no longer had a front sight. At that point I noticed I had a problem.

The ammo was Remington Golden Saber 125gr .357 magnum, which is a mid-range load. My chronograph says it runs just under 1100fps from that little revolver. I've never fired a full power .357 magnum round through it since the Golden Sabers seem to be about my limit for shooting well with it. The gun probably has about 300 rounds through it. I haven't kept a log but in a range session I typically shoot 10 rounds of Golden Sabers through it followed by 10 or 20 rounds of whatever .38 Special standard or +P I can find. I do that two or three times per year and I've had it a while. I think the date on the CT grips is 03/2007.

After collecting all the pieces we could find my dad zeroed his 340 and we each fired about 20 or so rounds of .38+P through it before moving on to something more enjoyable.

When we go home searched the web and found that these scandium framed revolvers break a lot more often than I thought.

Here are a few links and some have pics very similar to mine.

http://www.smithandwessonforums.com/forum/s-w-revolvers-1945-present/19197-340-sc-goes-kaboom.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/sw340pd.html

http://lonelymachines.org/2009/11/08/pushing-the-envelope-vs-pushing-your-luck/#more-1478

http://www.thegunzone.com/sw357pd.html

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/186384-340pd-cracked-frame.html

I like these pics:



Those look a lot like the remains of my 340.

After looking at those links and others we checked out my dad's 340 and sure enough it had a crack under the forcing cone, where the barrel attaches to the frame.

We both called S&W. The person I spoke with immediately offered to send me a shipping label for Fedex. The first person my dad spoke with on the phone told him that he would have to pay for the shipping to S&W for them to look at it. He called back and spoke with someone else who immediately offered him the shipping label as well.

My dad's 340 arrived at S&W on April 9 and mine arrived on April 10. On April 11 he got a phone call from S&W saying they would replace his revolver and wanted to know what dealer to ship it to. I didn't hear from S&W for about 8 business days so I called them and was told that my 340 was "in the metallurgy lab" and the person I spoke with would not give me any more details. However, that made me suspicious.

Today, May 3, I called S&W again. I was told that the 340 was still in the metallurgy lab and that "it appeared to be a detonation". I was told this by the guy on the phone and presumably not someone in "the metallurgy lab". I was also told it would be another two to three weeks before I would hear from them.

Does that look like a detonation?

The cylinder and barrel are fine. Neither is bulged or split. The ammo was factory rounds and not really hot ones, either.

Here is a link to a revolver that had a detonation:
http://www.vincelewis.net/44magboom.html
Notice how nearly half of the cylinder is gone?

I was not injured at all and didn't notice any difference in recoil on any of the four rounds I fired that day.

Seriously, does that look like a detonation? If S&W isn't trying to use "hot handloads" as an excuse to not replace it then why have they spent three weeks on this when they took two days to let my dad know they were replacing his 340?

I noticed one symptom mentioned in one of the articles and that is that over the last few months the cylinder would sometimes bind a little when I would try to open it. I had assumed that it was dirt and lint from carry getting into the mechanism, but I think that might have been from some slight misalignment when it started to crack.

I also wanted to add that S&W has not refused to replace it. They have had it for 20 business days without getting in contact with me. I have called them twice and not really gotten an answer except that one person I spoke with told me it looked like a detonation and seemed to hint that S&W was not going to do anything about it. That guy, named Joe, may not have the final word on this but right now it doesn't look good.

If you have a scandium alloy S&W then I suggest you check it carefully in the area around the forcing cone.

Looks like the frame let loose. Barrel fell out no frame to hold it.

If it had been detonation I would think that the cylinder would have damage. It appears to be OK in the photos. I agree that frame gave up. What is the white substance in the frame where the barrel mounts.

they have replaced a friend of mines guns for this exact issue they told him it was from a defect when putting the barrel on it was over tightened and
caused the crack. these were all full size guns 44 and 45 I think

That white stuff is just the metal alloy the frame is made of. It really is kind of off white color. I don't know if it is supposed to be that color. That may be a clue to the condition or makeup of the alloy. I don't know that much about materials.

Scadnium

If you are saying that taking a frame design intended for use with steel and making it out of scandium (or any light weight alloy) without increasing the dimensions to ensure it is strong enough, then I have to agree.

I wouldn't have agreed until this happened and then I started looking into failures of this type.

I'm just glad I wasn't in a life threatening situation when this happened.

As we all are here at THF!

If it was detonation then Speer should make you whole again. Glad you are ok!

A scadnium alloy frame is the one and only problem here.

The frame surrounding the barrel gave way. Really not much else to say about it in my opinion.

Please post the final outcome.

You can count on that.

No, my experience is that detonation would have blown the cylinder apart and bulged or split the top strap.

I'll say this, I don't think you are a fake because the PD is too expensive for faking.

I saw a 342 M&P that didn't lock up right and caused some damage but not that bad. It was a 38 plus P. And I've seen three 351C 22 mags crack.

Was the cyl out of time? The titanium cyl is the most durable part on the gun.

Keep us posted and goodluck.

Hope they take care of this for you.

Looks like a casting failure, i.e. scadnium frame. I seriously doubt that it was a detonation due to the fact that there is no deformation of any part of the revolver, only breaks and cracks. Just my two cents.

I don't believe the cylinder was out of time for two reasons:

1. The primer strikes are well centered on the primers. The pics that show fired cases in the cylinder are the first four rounds I fired the day it failed. If it was that far out of time I think the firing pin strikes would be off center enough to see.

2. There was no damage or jacket fragments on the rear of the barrel. I took the pics immediately after this happened and did not clean anything. The only thing I did was open the cylinder and take out the live round that would have been number five.

I could be wrong about that, especially about the first one, but I don't think so. The last time I fired it before this it ran fine, was accurate, and didn't spit any pieces of jacket. I don't now how it would have gotten out of time since then.

I would believe it was out of time before I believe a detonation.

I'm also certain it was not a blocked barrel. When the first round didn't show up on the target I opened it up and checked the bore and it was clear. The next two rounds were on the cardboard backer so I know they weren't lodged in the bore. When I fired the fourth round the barrel came off.

I lean toward a casting defect or failure....possibly centerline shrinkage, dross/impurities or a failed casting gate which would contribute to a weak casting....I truly believe that forged frames are superior to cast frames....I know there are thousands of cast frames out there but micro structure is superior in a forged part...this is assuming a properly forged part with strict temperature controls and mechanical properties...

rick

The only Airweight I have left is a 432PD. I've seen more of these things crack than one person should and so have you. I still love the 340 M&P with plus P 38.

So whatever became of this?

Bump this for an update.

At this point I do not have a replacement.

I was told in about August of 2013 that a .300 Whisper upper for the AR would be available and I like that because I was working out of state and transferring a handgun would have required travel back home. No upper was ever shipped.

In about the second week of November I was told that .300 Whisper uppers would not be available for the foreseeable future but that M&P15 Optics Ready Carbines were on the shelf and they would ship one "right away" if I wanted it. I agreed to this even though I don't really like the features on the ORC.

Nothing had arrived at my FFL dealer by Thanksgiving but I saw two online dealers with S&W .300 Whisper uppers on their Black Friday sales.

I was a little irritated by that and sent a letter with delivery confirmation to P. James Debney, the CEO of Smith & Wesson. It was delivered on December 9, 2013. This letter outlined my experience including dates and names of customer service people I spoke with on the phone.

At this point S&W has not responded to my letter and I still do not have any kind of replacement.

I am unimpressed with Smith & Wesson's version of customer service.

Wow. That is unfortunate. From my limited experience, S&W was awesome to deal with. It's unfortunate that they've literally done nothing to make this right. Sometimes letting it go is easier and cheaper than fighting it... That said, I hope you hound the crap out of them until they make it right. Good luck to you good sir!

(Also makes me wonder about my M&P 340...)

Things to look for or keep in mind on your 340:

1. From time to time open the cylinder and look closely at the frame under the forcing cone. This is where the cracks usually seem to start from what I've seen. I've been checking threads about issues like this and that seems to be a common starting point.

2. I read that when this happens the cylinder latch will get a little tougher to push to open the cylinder. That happened to mine. I thought it was just dirty from being carried so when it happened I would clean and oil it more thoroughly than normal. It generally helped, but probably because of the pressure of rubbing the crud off.

3. The first thing I really noticed was that suddenly the point of impact of shots went completely crazy. I had just changed the battery in the laser and wanted to verify the zero. The first shot at 15 yards completely missed the 2' x 3' cardboard target backer. I moved up to 7 yards and the round hit about 2 feet low. The next round was about a foot high. I thought maybe the laser had come loose in the housing so I stepped back to 15 yards to try the iron sights and that was when the barrel flew off.

Since this was my daily carry gun I was glad it fell apart in practice as opposed to when I might need it for real.

If your cylinder latch starts to bind a little or your group size suddenly grows to several feet at 7 yards then take a close look at the frame and make sure it isn't cracked.

If I were you, I would NOT DROP THE BALL on this with S&W!

Wow!!! If everything you said is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) then they have really dropped the ball on this.

I would love to see them join in on this thread and tell us what the heck is going on.