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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: HeidelbergJaeger]
#4143786
03/25/13 12:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,087
Jasb
THF Celebrity
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Why does DHS need hollow point ammunition?
In over 18 years of active Federal service, I have never been issued a hollow point round. The Geneva Convention prohibits the use of such altered ammunition for use in combat. Why on Earth would the DHS have rounds designed to open upon impact thereby causing a massive wound channel inside of a body?
. Really? You dont think ICE and BP agents have HP ammo?
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: Jasb]
#4143808
03/25/13 12:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 397
zombiedrifter
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 397 |
ICE and BP carry hollowpoints, .40S+W caliber.
ICE and BP,nor any DHS agency are NOT constrained by the Geneva Convention.
We are not too big to fail, we are just the right size.
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: txhippo]
#4143827
03/25/13 12:54 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,056
HWY_MAN
THF Celebrity
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maybe you naysayers should find a better link for us ? Or you could provide one that shows where they took delivery and not just stating they want to buy. As I said earlier a blanket PO means nothing until they purchase from it and rarely do they take the full amount that the Po is for. I'm not defending them just trying explain how a Blanket PO works and how much of this is being missrepresented by the media.
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: HWY_MAN]
#4143834
03/25/13 12:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 787
txhippo
Tracker
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Joined: Nov 2009
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maybe you naysayers should find a better link for us ? Or you could provide one that shows where they took delivery and not just stating they want to buy. As I said earlier a blanket PO means nothing until they purchase from it and rarely do they take the full amount that the Po is for. I'm not defending them just trying explain how a Blanket PO works and how much of this is being missrepresented by the media. Do it yourself
BEANS AND BULLETS
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: txhippo]
#4143848
03/25/13 01:04 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,056
HWY_MAN
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 31,056 |
maybe you naysayers should find a better link for us ? Or you could provide one that shows where they took delivery and not just stating they want to buy. As I said earlier a blanket PO means nothing until they purchase from it and rarely do they take the full amount that the Po is for. I'm not defending them just trying explain how a Blanket PO works and how much of this is being missrepresented by the media. Do it yourself Sorry but I can't find one and neither has anybody else including the media that should tell you something.
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: HWY_MAN]
#4143868
03/25/13 01:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 787
txhippo
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So wy do you have doubts about this ? You dont think the dhs would hide anything ?
BEANS AND BULLETS
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: HWY_MAN]
#4143869
03/25/13 01:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 397
zombiedrifter
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 397 |
Sorry but I can't find one and neither has anybody else including the media that should tell you something.
Just because the Media can not/will not give information is not the ultimate indicator of a theory's validity. In fact, in many American's eyes, the Media has become a contrarian indicator, a voice of the enemy. That being said, there has to be some proof somewhere on a GubMint website with a receipt saying "One BoatLoad Ammo Received" If not, where is the purchase accountability?
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: zombiedrifter]
#4144157
03/25/13 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
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I saw 2 Humvees going east on Interstate 20 when we were coming back from the north Lowe's in Abilene. Neither had any markings, you "bad" guys in DFW better look out, they are coming to get you. 
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2018/09/full-3152-162968-charge_air_assault.jpg)
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: dogcatcher]
#4144367
03/25/13 04:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 787
txhippo
Tracker
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Joined: Nov 2009
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I saw 2 Humvees going east on Interstate 20 when we were coming back from the north Lowe's in Abilene. Neither had any markings, you "bad" guys in DFW better look out, they are coming to get you. It's ok put your head back in the sand and go to sleep 
BEANS AND BULLETS
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: txhippo]
#4144391
03/25/13 04:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 397
zombiedrifter
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 397 |
No, it isn't. That is exactly what got us here in the first place. Quit mollycoddling the naysayers. Soon they will be the ones that are outraged and ready to react...at that time, be prepared to answer some tough questions for them. The time is coming for us to dine, and the menu is either poop soup or a crap sammich. We are all going to have to take a bite, no matter how much we deny it right now.
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: Jasb]
#4144470
03/25/13 04:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,183
Mike Honcho
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,183 |
I like the Emiliano Zapata reference in discussing DHS ahhh the irony lol. It's a good and true quote regardless of who said it. It's a simple ploy by the left to get their way on gun control. Look at what the states are doing I.e. colorado. Finef@ck knew she couldn't win so the method shifted to the state level.
“Two things that define an individual what you do when you have everything, and what you do when you have nothing."
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: zombiedrifter]
#4144521
03/25/13 05:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,674
91cavgt
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,674 |
Enough with the bickering back and forth guys. Let's get somewhere with this discussion.
Does anyone have any contacts in the ammo industry?
We need to get in touch with the ammo manufactures to find out IF any of them have submitted contracts to the government for this ammo, AND if any of the contracts have been signed. Does the government accept bids from foreign ammo manufactures? If so that might be a little harder to find out if any of them have submitted bids. And if the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty is signed, would that put a stop to large ammo purchases from those foreign manufactures?
Once we have contacted all of the ammo manufactures and found out what the truth really is, then we will know and there won't be any guessing or relying on the media.
God has a plan and something special in mind for all of us. Do you know the direction that God wants to send you?
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: 91cavgt]
#4146669
03/26/13 02:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953
TF Panther
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This is the Hollow point problem. Yes, Law Enforcement carries Hollow Points while on duty. When you go to the range to qualify you use ball ammo. When you go through a shooting course you use ball ammo. When you go to a shooting school you use ball ammo. When you get off the range you put your duty ammo Hollow Points back in your magazines.
You burn ball ammo in practice. So why order all Hollow Point? They don't use them for training. That is what makes it a story.
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: TF Panther]
#4146727
03/26/13 02:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 744
modelt3
Tracker
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Joined: Dec 2009
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A good friend of mine is an ICE agent. Even before the ammo shortage, he was given a couple of boxes of ammo each month for range use. It is exactly the same ammo he carries on duty...hollow points. This is the Hollow point problem. Yes, Law Enforcement carries Hollow Points while on duty. When you go to the range to qualify you use ball ammo. When you go through a shooting course you use ball ammo. When you go to a shooting school you use ball ammo. When you get off the range you put your duty ammo Hollow Points back in your magazines.
You burn ball ammo in practice. So why order all Hollow Point? They don't use them for training. That is what makes it a story.
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: modelt3]
#4147189
03/26/13 05:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953
TF Panther
Tracker
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A good friend of mine is an ICE agent. Even before the ammo shortage, he was given a couple of boxes of ammo each month for range use. It is exactly the same ammo he carries on duty...hollow points. This is the Hollow point problem. Yes, Law Enforcement carries Hollow Points while on duty. When you go to the range to qualify you use ball ammo. When you go through a shooting course you use ball ammo. When you go to a shooting school you use ball ammo. When you get off the range you put your duty ammo Hollow Points back in your magazines.
You burn ball ammo in practice. So why order all Hollow Point? They don't use them for training. That is what makes it a story. That proves what? That his supervisor hands out a few extra boxes of Hollow Points because they apparently have a HUGE surplus of Hollow Points. Ask you friend what they use when in a training courses. If they are using Hollow Point for training courses too, that is Waste and Abuse of tax dollars.
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: TF Panther]
#4147205
03/26/13 05:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802 |
A good friend of mine is an ICE agent. Even before the ammo shortage, he was given a couple of boxes of ammo each month for range use. It is exactly the same ammo he carries on duty...hollow points. This is the Hollow point problem. Yes, Law Enforcement carries Hollow Points while on duty. When you go to the range to qualify you use ball ammo. When you go through a shooting course you use ball ammo. When you go to a shooting school you use ball ammo. When you get off the range you put your duty ammo Hollow Points back in your magazines.
You burn ball ammo in practice. So why order all Hollow Point? They don't use them for training. That is what makes it a story. That proves what? That his supervisor hands out a few extra boxes of Hollow Points because they apparently have a HUGE surplus of Hollow Points. Ask you friend what they use when in a training courses. If they are using Hollow Point for training courses too, that is Waste and Abuse of tax dollars. If your life was on the line everyday, what would you want to practice with?
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: dogcatcher]
#4147220
03/26/13 05:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953
TF Panther
Tracker
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953 |
A good friend of mine is an ICE agent. Even before the ammo shortage, he was given a couple of boxes of ammo each month for range use. It is exactly the same ammo he carries on duty...hollow points. This is the Hollow point problem. Yes, Law Enforcement carries Hollow Points while on duty. When you go to the range to qualify you use ball ammo. When you go through a shooting course you use ball ammo. When you go to a shooting school you use ball ammo. When you get off the range you put your duty ammo Hollow Points back in your magazines.
You burn ball ammo in practice. So why order all Hollow Point? They don't use them for training. That is what makes it a story. That proves what? That his supervisor hands out a few extra boxes of Hollow Points because they apparently have a HUGE surplus of Hollow Points. Ask you friend what they use when in a training courses. If they are using Hollow Point for training courses too, that is Waste and Abuse of tax dollars. If your life was on the line everyday, what would you want to practice with? Been there done that. We used ball Ammo. A .40 cal Glock is not a sniper rifle. You are not shooting at 800 where everything matters. Shoot Ball the HP through your pistol and you will not notice a group difference.
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: TF Panther]
#4147245
03/26/13 05:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953
TF Panther
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The Army uses Ball ammo on the 50 cal range for training. The 50 has alot of different types of more expesive ammo like the SLP/T round. I guess since their life is on the line they should shoot the most expensive rounds they have.
They also use Chalk rounds not HE on the M 203 40mm ranges. They use 9MM tracer ammo to practice shooting the Anti Tank AT/4 shoulder fired rocket launcher.
I guess the Army is not as important as DHS.
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: TF Panther]
#4147266
03/26/13 05:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 744
modelt3
Tracker
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Easy hoss...I'm not trying to prove anything, just stating a fact: he gets hollow points to use at the range. A good friend of mine is an ICE agent. Even before the ammo shortage, he was given a couple of boxes of ammo each month for range use. It is exactly the same ammo he carries on duty...hollow points. This is the Hollow point problem. Yes, Law Enforcement carries Hollow Points while on duty. When you go to the range to qualify you use ball ammo. When you go through a shooting course you use ball ammo. When you go to a shooting school you use ball ammo. When you get off the range you put your duty ammo Hollow Points back in your magazines.
You burn ball ammo in practice. So why order all Hollow Point? They don't use them for training. That is what makes it a story. That proves what? That his supervisor hands out a few extra boxes of Hollow Points because they apparently have a HUGE surplus of Hollow Points. Ask you friend what they use when in a training courses. If they are using Hollow Point for training courses too, that is Waste and Abuse of tax dollars.
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: modelt3]
#4147348
03/26/13 06:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953
TF Panther
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Whoa....Easy..... I was just stating a fact that there is no need for DHS to be training with HP. If they are they should stop. 16.5 Trillion in debt should be enough reason to use ball for range duty and cut their munitions cost by a minimum of 25%, which would be millions in savings. Maybe then we could use that for air traffic controllers or WH tours.......
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: Grendel 6.5]
#4147411
03/26/13 06:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 31
Hawkin'
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 31 |
This has nothing to do with TSA. It is on a rather grander scale that they predict the need for a stockpile of ammunition. No, it doesn't involve an outbreak of zombies. There is however a looming crisis coming regarding the U.S. economy which will yield a major change in the standard of living. This will quite likely lead to civil unrest of various forms and severities. The Feds and politicians blow a cover of smoke by talking about inflation and job numbers. The real issue is that the Fed Reserve keeps printing currency to cashflow our debt service. It's not backed by GDP or any value, it's just paper. Other countries, in particular China, are not blind to this. We have enjoyed the luxury of being the world's currency for decades. But, that is about to change and that event (not Republicans) will be what forces change. China is pushing their currency to other countries as we speak pointing out that Americans cant control reckless spending. It will be much more painful but it is coming. The DHS will become the Obama police to "deal with" issues of concern (ie, civil disobedience and unrest). For the naysayers, I don't have a hole dug out back or wear a tinfoil hat. But, I've looked at the fiscal numbers and reactions of other countries to our fiscal irresponsibility. A correction has been a long time coming and it's getting closer. My Thoughts exactly. There is a big shift coming, and all of those people who get free stuff are not going to get it anymore. I prefer to be well armed when that happens personally. S~
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: TF Panther]
#4147489
03/26/13 07:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,267
TRIJI....WHAT
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,267 |
This is the Hollow point problem. Yes, Law Enforcement carries Hollow Points while on duty. When you go to the range to qualify you use ball ammo. When you go through a shooting course you use ball ammo. When you go to a shooting school you use ball ammo. When you get off the range you put your duty ammo Hollow Points back in your magazines.
You burn ball ammo in practice. So why order all Hollow Point? They don't use them for training. That is what makes it a story. Wrong.....I know that some Police Departments shoot the same ammo all the time whether it be qualifying, training or carry. HP is shot at all times.
Last edited by TRIJI....WHAT; 03/26/13 07:36 PM.
Shhhhhhhh better to be quiet than remove all doubt..
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: TRIJI....WHAT]
#4147550
03/26/13 07:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953
TF Panther
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W This is the Hollow point problem. Yes, Law Enforcement carries Hollow Points while on duty. When you go to the range to qualify you use ball ammo. When you go through a shooting course you use ball ammo. When you go to a shooting school you use ball ammo. When you get off the range you put your duty ammo Hollow Points back in your magazines.
You burn ball ammo in practice. So why order all Hollow Point? They don't use them for training. That is what makes it a story. Wrong.....I know that some Police Departments shoot the same ammo all the time whether it be qualifying, training or carry. HP is shot at all times. Which ones have unlimited ammo funds?
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: TF Panther]
#4147591
03/26/13 08:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 953
TF Panther
Tracker
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I have been checking with multiple LEO friends in the Metroplex. All the same reply. Train with Ball, HP for duty. Qualifying is only around 50 rounds at different distances for state requirement. Once a year they use HP's to qualify to rotate old ammo out and get new HP duty ammo. Garland, Grand Prarie, Mesquite, Dallas,Ft Worth to name a few.
City's have budgets. County's have budgets. States have budgets. Going through some police academy's you shoot in excess of 2,500 rds in a week. Training events over 1000 per officer. It adds up to shoot HP over ball, so the vast majority does not. Maybe Highland Park shoots HP.........
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Re: DHS won't answer why so much ammo purchased
[Re: TF Panther]
#4147683
03/26/13 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802 |
I shoot the same ammo at practice that I plan to shoot in he actual situation. If you want to practice with a sling shot, you can, doesn't mean the LEO with his life on the line should.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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