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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Cool_Hand]
#379118
07/01/08 11:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
OP
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OP
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Please everyone pay attention to what people are typing.
The last time this type poll was done, There Were People That Blamed TP&W, And They Felt TP&W Was To Blame Because They Were Not Working On Putting A Limit On What Could Be charged For Hunting Publicly Owned Wildlife.
I did not say that I felt that way, because anyone that can have a cognisent thought should know that TP&W can not even attempt to do that.
That did not however prevent some folks from doing just that in the past.
Please, stop reading more into this than is there.
I just listed the same groups that were listed the last time this poll was conducted, nothing more, nothing less.
From what I am seeing opinions have changed to how the situation actually is, and not what some perceived it to be a year or so back.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Brother in-law]
#379119
07/01/08 11:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,422
spanky
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For me I voted hunters, supply and demand all the way. Not wanting to bringing the house down upon me, but this is the first year in a longgggggg time I am not gonna miss deer hunting.
I was on a lease the last couple of years that kinda got me to where I am at today. I was paying 1400.00 in Brownwood, and driving 3 hrs to get there, along with a bunch of horn happy son of a guns thrown in the mix. Now mind you, I ain't got nothing against horns, because I have 2 on the wall, but the atmosphere around there was untolerable, along with the money to just be able to hunt, just pushed it over the top.
I now have a 100 acres that I have leased, with a 8 acre lake on it. I can fish, dove hunt, duck hunt and varmit hunt all I want not more than 4 miles from my house, for $400 less than I was paying to deer hunt.If you cut out the 6 hrs roundtrip about 10 times a year, it adds up a lot.
Will I miss deer hunting, sure, but I can go kill a doe when I want some venison. I am looking forward to this season because, it's something new, something I have not done in a while, and more of a chance to be outdoors.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#379120
07/01/08 11:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
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I think some that blame TP&W is based on on ignorance. They want TP&W to provide more public land for hunting, only problem with that is TP&W doesn't control the use of public land, that blame should be shifted to the Texas Land Office. That is still wrong, basically there is not that much public land in Texas, and this fact has been hashed over and over on here.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2018/09/full-3152-162968-charge_air_assault.jpg)
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Brother in-law]
#379121
07/01/08 11:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,721
Txduckman
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I blame it on speculators. The speculation that the next ranch/lease will produce a muey grande. You don't see lease advertised that say, $2,000 a gun to shoot spikes and does.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Txduckman]
#379122
07/01/08 11:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,721
Txduckman
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But, think of this. What if everything was a constant. Equal number of hunters and leases. The prices would still go up. Not as quick but they have to beat inflation since their real estate investment is appreciating. Many other factors would influence the landowner to raise his price so he can keep ahead of all other costs going up. It is a business to them, not a hobby.
Many places leased today didn't have any deer or a huntable population over 20 years ago. The product was not as good long time ago so they didn't get as much as they do now.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: 7mag]
#379123
07/02/08 12:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 902
MogulRanch
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there is nobody to blame. take a look at the state of texas population statistics. its supply and demand people, more people in texas and more people willing to come to texas to hunt means higher prices. quit blaming others and find a way to purchase your own land or allocate money into your budget for a lease.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#379124
07/02/08 02:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,101
kwrhuntinglab
"The Guardian"
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"The Guardian"
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,101 |
Quote:
Kent, quit reading more into the question than what is there.
In the past on this same issue, each group that is listed had its share of people placing blame on it.
I am simply wanting to see if that is still the attitude or if people have changed their minds on the situation.
That is all and not one thing more.
So far there have been 47 views, 12 votes and 11 replies, and if you will take time to notice that just like you in the most feared THF member thread, no one has voted for TP&W yet, so I guess everyone considers them ineffectual sort of like they did you on that thread.
But you have seen landowners get blamed and outfitters/guides/leasing agents get blamed in the past and I am trying to see if things are still that way.
Get down off your step ladder and piddle on someone else's parade runt.
How come you act like an ARSE on the forum......but act like a little lamb when someone meets you in person.... 
Just cause your taller doesn't make you wiser.....or smarter.....man you would argue with a wall wouldn't you....
And again.....TPW ain't got chit to do with what someone charges and won't ever have a say.....
Like you say.....everyone has an opinion.....and this is an OPEN forum.....if you don't like my opinion.....HIT the IGNORE button.....isn't that what you told someone else..... 
Last edited by kwrhuntinglab; 07/02/08 02:16 AM.
Spend time with the ones you love. Time is not guaranteed.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: kwrhuntinglab]
#379125
07/02/08 02:19 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,203
Koenig
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 6,203 |
I would say supply and demand. As long as people are willing to pay 3000+ the price will be 3000+.
 never trust a man that rents pigs....
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Koenig]
#379126
07/02/08 02:29 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 391
Axisking
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 391 |
No doubt supply and demand. And alot of the good land is now split up in 20-150 acre plats. Heck, really all the possible answers are reasons to blame it on.
But you know, there are still some descent deals out there...it's who you know and finding/being in the right spot at the right time. Usually I'm 100 miles off and 6 months late...Oh well
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: MogulRanch]
#379127
07/02/08 02:30 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,802
dogcatcher
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Quote:
there is nobody to blame. take a look at the state of texas population statistics. its supply and demand people, more people in texas and more people willing to come to texas to hunt means higher prices. quit blaming others and find a way to purchase your own land or allocate money into your budget for a lease.
I kind of agree with you that the increase in population is part of the reason for the increase in the cost of leases but I think it is a small part.
This same increase in population has created the sale of land in small tracts that is not any good for hunting. Look at any of the towns in west Texas and look all of the thousands of acres that have been subdivided into small "ranches" of 5 or less acres. Then look at the thousands of acres that have been subdivided into 10 acres or more. Most of this land is no good for for wildlife management, they are just large home sites.
Around Abilene, especially to the south there used to be some pretty good deer hunting within 25 miles, now there is almost none. Almost all of the land has been developed in to small parcels. There are a few isolated hunting spots in that 25 mile range but the majority has been take out of the land available for lease.
Maybe I should have said hundreds of thousands of acres have been taken out of the lease pool because of development, because that is probably a more realistic figure.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Txduckman]
#379128
07/02/08 02:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,881
Cool_Hand
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,881 |
Quote:
But, think of this. What if everything was a constant. Equal number of hunters and leases. The prices would still go up. Not as quick but they have to beat inflation since their real estate investment is appreciating. Many other factors would influence the landowner to raise his price so he can keep ahead of all other costs going up. It is a business to them, not a hobby.
Many places leased today didn't have any deer or a huntable population over 20 years ago. The product was not as good long time ago so they didn't get as much as they do now.
Now this opinion is where its at guys. I'm stating the same thing here as I did in my post on the other page.
Its a business plain and simple. And a business will stagnate if you don't cultivate it and improve your assets. We are going to go against the grain this year by actually lowering some prices!! We all know why, because of the fuel costs and everything else that has been inflated, we'll try to ease the pressure of high cost package hunting.
It may not be visable to someone that hasn't ever hunted with us before but our returning clientel will see a drop in pricing structure!!
 Benny Promise Ranch
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#379129
07/02/08 12:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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The latest statistics on the poll are: 248 views. 35 replies. 41 total votes. Break down on the voting: Landowners - 4 votes Outfitters et al - 8 votes Hunters - 28 votes TP&W - 1 vote Last year or however long back it was that this was on here before, these numbers looked a lot different, a lot closer than these are. A smaller number of people admitted to or even conceeded to the fact that hunters were at fault due to the demand they were/are placing on the available resource. In the earlier poll, land owners and outfitters/guides/leasing agents, were about equal as to who was to blame, and TP&W was viewed by more people as being guily of complacency if nothing else on this issue. Thanks to everyone for there comments and for participating. So far the poll has showed me at least, that there has been a shift in the attitudes and beliefs as to why the costs of leasing a place has risen and will continue to do so. I feel that shift or change of attitude, shows a more realistic grasp of the situation as it is actually occuring, by at least part of the membership of the THF.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#379130
07/02/08 03:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 19,100
dgilbert
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Good grief, don't get all pissie because the thread doesn't go the way you want it to. Let everyone have their say, you do.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: JJH]
#379131
07/02/08 04:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 487
dryland_fish
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 487 |
Quote:
Why does someone have to be blamed? Why can't the answer be: supply and demand? (Which is what the answer is, as long as we are in a free society)
Im with JJH as long as hunters pay the $$$$ will go up......
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#379132
07/02/08 04:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,039
Tx_Phantom
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In my opinion, if you are charging it, someone will pay it. Look at the automakers as a comparison. Have you ever seen an uglier vehicle than a H2 or a Land Rover? Yet they are $$$ in price and people buy them. Take the example of a car with a hideous color – yellow, orange or purple. People still buy them.
We as consumers create the supply and demand. The landowners are only charging what the market will support. If they think they can get $15/acre, they’ll charge it. They’d be stupid not to. I’d love to have 1000 acres, lease out ½ of it and let the leasees pay my land payment – that’d be awesome.
TxP
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Tx_Phantom]
#379133
07/02/08 04:14 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 16,464
txcornhusker
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Quote:
I’d love to have 1000 acres, lease out ½ of it and let the leasees pay my land payment – that’d be awesome.
TxP
You'd have to have one hell of a big down payment then! 
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: txcornhusker]
#379134
07/02/08 04:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,039
Tx_Phantom
Extreme Tracker
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Well yeah, but still, you get my point...
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Tx_Phantom]
#379135
07/02/08 04:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 16,464
txcornhusker
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Ag leasing pays WAY better than hunting. Well, in ag areas that is.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: txcornhusker]
#379136
07/02/08 04:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,551
Sethfish
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,551 |
Quote:
Ag leasing pays WAY better than hunting. Well, in ag areas that is.
That is why you turn it to CRP, then lease it out for grazing rights, then claim crop insurance for the corn you never planted that didn't produce, and also the corp insurance for the cotton that never produced cause you didn't plant it because of the corn that was never planted that never produced, and then you lease the Brahma and Angus hunting rights to persons on this forum. You have to allow your land to work for you. there's the corn I was talking about  
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Sethfish]
#379137
07/02/08 04:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 16,464
txcornhusker
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Quote:
Quote:
Ag leasing pays WAY better than hunting. Well, in ag areas that is.
That is why you turn it to CRP, then lease it out for grazing rights, then claim crop insurance for the corn you never planted that didn't produce, and also the corp insurance for the cotton that never produced cause you didn't plant it because of the corn that was never planted that never produced, and then you lease the Brahma and Angus hunting rights to persons on this forum. You have to allow your land to work for you. there's the corn I was talking about
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: txcornhusker]
#379138
07/02/08 05:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,049
bayourat
Veteran Tracker
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You can only graze CRP in times of declared drought. A guy I know bought insurance on a crop he never planted then turned in a claim for crop failure. He got caught and it was pretty dang expensive just to stay out of prison. You can put it in CRP then lease it out to hunters and almost make your land payments. Thats the key point to CRP you can manipulate, farm or whatever, what you can't do is graze,harvest or hay unless an exception is given for drought or other natural disaster.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: bayourat]
#379140
07/02/08 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 16,464
txcornhusker
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Quote:
You can only graze CRP in times of declared drought. A guy I know bought insurance on a crop he never planted then turned in a claim for crop failure. He got caught and it was pretty dang expensive just to stay out of prison. You can put it in CRP then lease it out to hunters and almost make your land payments. Thats the key point to CRP you can manipulate, farm or whatever, what you can't do is graze,harvest or hay unless an exception is given for drought or other natural disaster.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Sethfish]
#379141
07/02/08 05:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,039
Tx_Phantom
Extreme Tracker
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Quote:
Quote:
Ag leasing pays WAY better than hunting. Well, in ag areas that is.
That is why you turn it to CRP, then lease it out for grazing rights, then claim crop insurance for the corn you never planted that didn't produce, and also the corp insurance for the cotton that never produced cause you didn't plant it because of the corn that was never planted that never produced, and then you lease the Brahma and Angus hunting rights to persons on this forum. You have to allow your land to work for you. there's the corn I was talking about
I bet Seth has a lifetime supply of govenment cheese at home.
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Re: Lease prices, Who Is to Blame?
[Re: Tx_Phantom]
#379142
07/02/08 05:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 16,464
txcornhusker
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 16,464 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ag leasing pays WAY better than hunting. Well, in ag areas that is.
That is why you turn it to CRP, then lease it out for grazing rights, then claim crop insurance for the corn you never planted that didn't produce, and also the corp insurance for the cotton that never produced cause you didn't plant it because of the corn that was never planted that never produced, and then you lease the Brahma and Angus hunting rights to persons on this forum. You have to allow your land to work for you. there's the corn I was talking about
I bet Seth has a lifetime supply of govenment cheese at home.
Much better than the bathtub cheese they make back in your homeland!
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