its no secret, hunting is an expensive hobby. not only factoring in equipment costs, but time, fuel, feed, etc, it can add up quickly.

I can understand that budget and cost concern comes into play when outfitting a son or daughter with a rifle, but I've been seeing alot of "i'm gonna buy them a .223 rossi for their first gun"

IMO, this is the equivalent of giving a carpenters apprentice a 8oz. granny tacker for a hammer.

if your trying to introduce them to a sport that you love and want them to continue doing for the rest of their lives, why handicap them with a cheap firearm and underpowered caliber?

when I was a kid, EVERYBODY started off with a 30-30. either a winchester or a marlin, but thats what everyone got for their first deer rifle. neither one is a complex or fancy firearm, but no doubt, both are quality guns, and a .30-30 is a proven deer killer at reasonable ranges. gun was accurate, functioned good and could be passed down amongst the family.

the trend I"m seeing now amongst dads is buying theie kids the cheapest thing they can find and letting them go with that.

I had one kid that was on a youth hunt on one of the ranches I was hunting at, miss two deer at an extreemly close range. he was very upset and pretty much lost all motivation to go out anymore. I was there to hunt, not guide, but I took a look at his equipment, it was a mossberg bolt action rifle that had about a 9lb trigger on it. it was a combo gun, the scope was about as bright as a foggy headlight and to top it off, rings and mounts were loose. I tightend them up then took him to the range to give him a crash course in shooting. later that evening he took his first deer. I had a hard time shooting that gun accurately, how in the world is a 12 year old kid supposed to do it?


wouldn't it make more sense, instead of buying them a cheap combo gun, to go to a pawn shop and buy an older, QUALITY firearm for them to use, in a caliber suitable for deer size game?

When I was a kid we started with bolt action rifles and they weren't 30-30's either. I am bit older than you. We spent many hours shooting on the range before we were allowed to shoot a deer. But I understand your thinking. I have seen guys use a smaller caliber like a .204 in a bolt rifle then have the same exact rifle in a bit larger caliber (.243 or so) for the kid to use when hunting. They would practice with the .204 and then let them take a shot or two with the larger caliber at the end and the kids would not realize what they were shooting. Reduced recoil loads work great for kids or older hunters also. With all of the kids we have had hunt over the years we never had one miss I can say.
One thing we did to increase the odds of success was use this rest in all the blinds. With kids it was excellent and kept them steady on the target when buck fever was setting in on them. Even with adults this was a great rest for shots on big deer or those who got buck fever.

TX ,I agree with you 100%, when the option of "financing" (has the $$) is available to the parent. If a child gets a firearm, he may indeed want to keep it for years and possibly hand it down as "dads 1st gun", thats where I think good quality to start with is paramount. Saying all that who desides quality?? For some a "Rossi" may be quality..Just say'n

Was that when mauser was doing their promo's when the model 98 first came out?


lol, I know, in my circle of friends, in east texas, we all got 30-30's. their dads got the ones their grandpa's shot and so on.....thats not to say that was going on all across the state.

thats like saying mcdonalds is gourmet food.

Actually it was a Remington 700 BDL 6mm bought in the 60's. Still have it and my Dad still shots it. Handloaded 105 grain boattails to shoot out of it.

Im suprised that round never was more popular. more powder, typically they had longer barrels that equaled a tad more velocity than a .243 winchester.

I don't thing remington markets their cartridges very well.

I'm about your age and my first was a 30-30 also.

I started as well with a Marlin 30-30. Heck of a little brush gun and still hunt with it depending on the blind I am at, or spot and stalk. Have a decent scope on it now, Nikon ProStaff, but I started out with a cheap Bushnell. All I could afford as a teen. Both of my boys learned to shoot using this rifle and took their first deer with it.

Never liked 30-30. I would put them right about level with the .223 Rossi I bought for varmits. I got my son the Mossberg youth model in .243 and it shoots as well as my Remington 700.

seriously?

comparing a marlin or winchster to a rossi?

thats like comparing a ribeye to a turd sandwich

Not really the rifle just the round. I like a .223 but not in a Rossi..

I think some peoples idea of "Dont have the money" are different some people cant afford anymore than the $200 rossi and some just choose not to.

You really don't want to artificially restrict a kids chance of success with bad equipment. Their initial experiences will determine whether or not they continue with the sport. No youth model rifle exists that costs more than losing the memories and relationship you can share with your child for the rest of your life if they enjoy hunting.

My favorite is the guy that pulls up in a new truck w/ a new 4 wheeler/ ranger, and says a decent gun in an appropriate caliber that fits his kid correctly is just too expensive.

While I didn't give either of my boys a cheapo rifle for their first I can understand why many do. Unless you wait until they are around 13 or so, many kids can't handle a full size rifle. It's an alternative that many tale to get them a smaller, lighter-recoiling rifle to start them off. Just like when you take your youngsters shoe shopping do you by them 200$ Air Jordan's? No, because you know they'll outgrow them in 6 months.

I respect your opinion. The 30-30 caliber has been a tried and true deer cartridge for many decades. It is not meant for the same hunting situations as a .243. That cartridge is certainly fast, and is respectable for most Texas deer and all varmints, but doesn't come close to 30-30 for knock down power at a 100 yards. I'll take the 30-30 any day when hunting deer specifically at close range. Love the .243 as an all purpose small to medium game cartridge. That would include most Texas deer with proper shot placement.

I guess at 100 yards its an sufficient weapon. I would take a .243 tho. Guess the thing that turned me off of em was when we were getting ready for a hunt and I was shooting beer caps at 100 yards with my .243 and my buddy was shooting all over the target. There are people that don't like the .243 for deer , I just don't like a 30-30 and love me a.243. Don't like .308 either btw..

2x on the 30-30 as a good cartridge in the hands of an accurate shooter who can pass up a bad shot. Hard to beat for 175 yds and under. Lot easier to maneuver a short lever in a blind than a Bolt action with a 24" barrel.

I wish I had better internet out here in the sticks. Now I'm curious to compare the lowly .243 with that 30-30 ballistically. Looked to be about 100 ft lbs more at the muzzle for the 30-30 but it was taking so long to load I didn't look too long.

Not to dog the 30-30 but how high you gotta aim to hit something at 175 yards?

my son has a .223 that he hunts with. I heard mixed reviews last year on this forum if it was the right choice as a first rifle. We will see this year. He did shoot last at a deer and missed. If he misses again this year I may have to re-think my decision.

Does he shoot it good on paper?

My first rifle was an 03 Springfield never owned a 30-30 and I never will, they are just too ballisticly challanged. 223 for deer is another I would not even consider and I'd never have anything on a single shot Rossie or H&R type platform.

he shoots OK. I shoot his rifle and its pretty sccurate at 100 yds. I think he just has jitters last year

I use a Bog-Pod tripod with my daughter in a stand or ground blind. Some time she has to sit in my lap to be high enough, but gives her a stable rest where she doesn't have to stretch and lean so much. We also practice out of a box stand during the summer to make her more comfortable.