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Re: When is a Spike a Spike?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#3662063
10/15/12 03:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,213
tShawnB
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,213 |
Personally, I think the easiest thing to do is to let bucks go to 3 years of age. At that time if they are 8 points or less or have other obvious genetic deficiencies you take them out of the herd. There is obviously lots of arguments and some complicated math involved, but to keep it simple, kill these types of bucks as "culls" and keep your buck to doe ration equal and no greater than 1 to 1.5 and you should be on your way to a good sound management philosophy at least on the harvesting side of the equation.
Last edited by tShawnB; 10/15/12 03:50 PM.
How come everybody I meet is a deer hunting expert?
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Re: When is a Spike a Spike?
[Re: tShawnB]
#3662108
10/15/12 04:13 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,312
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
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Personally, I think the easiest thing to do is to let bucks go to 3 years of age. At that time if they are 8 points or less or have other obvious genetic deficiencies you take them out of the herd. There is obviously lots of arguments and some complicated math involved, but to keep it simple, kill these types of bucks as "culls" and keep your buck to doe ration equal and no greater than 1 to 1.5 and you should be on your way to a good sound management philosophy at least on the harvesting side of the equation. Do this and you may find yourself with three and four-year-old deer with tall racks and 12-inch spreads that are protected under the 13-inch rule. The rule was designed to protect the best of the younger deer, rather than older ones. Just think about it. Common sense dictates that with ANYTHING, the best time to make management decisions are in the early stages of a process, rather than later when results can no longer be impacted. Or do you really believe it's best to wait until your child reaches the 6th Grade to find out if they can read? Our end goal is to see ZERO deer that are three years or older with less than a 13-ich spread.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: When is a Spike a Spike?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#3662169
10/15/12 04:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,213
tShawnB
Pro Tracker
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True, and if you hunt in an antler restricted county (I do not) you may need to have different management tactics; however, I have not seen many (actually none) 3 or 4 year old bucks with 12 or 13" racks that score 140"-160" which at that age is what you are looking for in a trophy (depending on your definition of trophy) and if this became a trait (narrow racked, low scoring) and you did not live in an antler restricted county, then you could add this type of buck to your cull list, claiming this as a genetic deficiency for your piece of ground. Personally, I think the easiest thing to do is to let bucks go to 3 years of age. At that time if they are 8 points or less or have other obvious genetic deficiencies you take them out of the herd. There is obviously lots of arguments and some complicated math involved, but to keep it simple, kill these types of bucks as "culls" and keep your buck to doe ration equal and no greater than 1 to 1.5 and you should be on your way to a good sound management philosophy at least on the harvesting side of the equation. Do this and you may find yourself with three and four-year-old deer with tall racks and 12-inch spreads that are protected under the 13-inch rule. The rule was designed to protect the best of the younger deer, rather than older ones. Just think about it. Common sense dictates that with ANYTHING, the best time to make management decisions are in the early stages of a process, rather than later when results can no longer be impacted. Or do you really believe it's best to wait until your child reaches the 6th Grade to find out if they can read?
How come everybody I meet is a deer hunting expert?
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Re: When is a Spike a Spike?
[Re: tShawnB]
#3662270
10/15/12 05:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,124
LandPirate
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,124 |
In my experience the best thing you can do is increase your doe harvest and not worry about young bucks. Especially if you're on small acreage, low fence leases, like most are.
Mike Buda, Tx Hunt near Freer
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Re: When is a Spike a Spike?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#3664268
10/16/12 04:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 195
Check1
Woodsman
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Woodsman
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Posts: 195 |
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Re: When is a Spike a Spike?
[Re: Texas Dan]
#3664328
10/16/12 06:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 16
LisaK
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 16 |
We cull spikes if they have 6" or better and if a fork is present you cant hang a ring from it and we also try to make sure not too young. Down here in south texas we have things like weather to look at also. If there has been a drought we may see some youg bucks with small spikes but the next year they spring back if weather is better.
LisaK
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Re: When is a Spike a Spike?
[Re: LisaK]
#3664358
10/16/12 08:43 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 612
Huntsmanda
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
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I went to a presentation on Oct. 5, given by TPWD/Ryan Reitz of the Kerr WMA. The data presented were very similar to Ranchman's (and other) data. I have that data and can make it availably to anyone who wants a copy of it.
The conclusion I came away with is this: If a buck is 1.5 years of age or older and is a spike (one or two unbranched antlers), you should cull it to improve the genetics of the herd. Same with 3-5 points with one or no brow tines. Cull early, cull often if the numbers/ratios permit.
This is what we, the same group of hunters, have been doing on our lease for the last 10+ years and our deer herd has greatly improved. Spike numbers are way down and overall antler mass/points has increased. The credit for this management goes to our land owner, a biologist himself...
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: When is a Spike a Spike?
[Re: Huntsmanda]
#3726765
11/06/12 02:26 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,750
QuitShootinYoungBucks
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,750 |
I went to a presentation on Oct. 5, given by TPWD/Ryan Reitz of the Kerr WMA. The data presented were very similar to Ranchman's (and other) data. I have that data and can make it availably to anyone who wants a copy of it.
The conclusion I came away with is this: If a buck is 1.5 years of age or older and is a spike (one or two unbranched antlers), you should cull it to improve the genetics of the herd. Same with 3-5 points with one or no brow tines. Cull early, cull often if the numbers/ratios permit.
This is what we, the same group of hunters, have been doing on our lease for the last 10+ years and our deer herd has greatly improved. Spike numbers are way down and overall antler mass/points has increased. The credit for this management goes to our land owner, a biologist himself... . We've done the same thing, with the exact same results. We now have better and bigger deer than ever. This is strictly free range; we do not supplemental feed and we run livestock as well. All we do is control herd numbers by taking a large number of does (none of our neighbors believe in doe control), cull any and all spikes, and let the others grow. I went 11 years without shooting a buck other than a spike. Two years ago I got my best deer ever, a 140 inch 10 that was 5.5 yrs old. We routinely see 2.5, 3.5 yr old bucks with 8 or more points, and our buck numbers are way up. To each his own ,but I've seen the proof with my own eyes.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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