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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: easton1025]
#364414
05/28/08 11:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
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..You cant be serious...Preston,(one of Bosque games wardens) stops by on a regular basis to say hi and grab a steak with us,and in no way would I ask him if we could take a illegal buck.I would be willing to bet a warden would not give permission to cull a illegal deer .We have hundreds of game cam pics and know the ages of deer on the property..Just something we have to deal with..Just saying before the restrictions we would have the landowner bring his family out several days to take specific deer that needed to go..now that is not possible..
the whole point of the restrictions is to allow young bucks to become mature bucks, if the deer is 5 or 6 years old with a 12 inch rack I don't think there are many game warden out there that are going to ticket you, thats the point I'm making. Its a judgement call but I have heard of people getting the OK from game wardens to take narrow racked older bucks, if there was visual (trail cam) evidence.
You and your friends must be pretty tight with the Warden for him to change the laws and let you take a illegal buck..I doubt your statement..picture or not..Problem with AR`s it gives the option of shooting a button buck that has protruded..now thats letting him grow..
I agree, it is no where near perfect, but on my place I have only seen one spike. Most of the 1.5 year old deer on my place or 6 points, and are under the 13" rule. I have never had to pass on a deer because of the rule. All the nice deer I saw were over 13".
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: helomech]
#364415
05/29/08 12:57 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 373
BigGuy
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 373 |
Same old story - 34th (or is it 35th) verse. Folks that have no experience with ARs are certain the hunting world as they know it is coming to an end. MOST of the people who have experience with ARs have seen an increase in both quality and quantity of bucks in their respective counties. Lavaca county was one of the original counties and the results have been nothing short of terrific. It's not perfect but it's much better than the way it was. One and two year old 4,6 and 8 pointers have a chance to live and grow another year.
As the size of "ranches" gets smaller and smaller it is encumbent on TPWD to ensure the resource is there for future generations. It would be great if everyone was concerned with conservation and limited their harvest but, unfortunately, that isn't the case. The "I'll get mine and to hell with everyone else" mentality is all too common. In earlier times, the first offense would have called for a warning and the second a beating or lynching. Given the current political climate, such solutions are are highly discouraged.
The one thing I haven't heard from AR opponents is their alternatives that will accomplish what TPWD is trying to do. Randall - who has looked at both sides of the issue - is the only person I recall that has had some points and suggestions. I anxiously await other suggestions and solutions.
Good Luck and Good Hunting.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: BigGuy]
#364416
05/29/08 01:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974
bossbowman
Tracker
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Quote:
And this right here is why advice or
guidance about things legal on an internet
forum is NOT GOOD.
You are telling everyone that logs on here you
KNOW that there are game wardens that will
look the other way when it comes to these restrictions??
Am I understanding correctly???
it doesn't hurt to contact your local game warden or wildlife biologist and ask, if they say hell no so be it, you have nothing to lose, you might be surprised by the response you get.
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You and your friends must be pretty tight with the Warden for him to change the laws and let you take a illegal buck..I doubt your statement..picture or not..Problem with AR`s it gives the option of shooting a button buck that has protruded..now thats letting him grow..
Like whats been said before, the rule isn't perfect but its better than nothing.
Quote:
The one thing I haven't heard from AR opponents is their alternatives that will accomplish what TPWD is trying to do. Randall - who has looked at both sides of the issue - is the only person I recall that has had some points and suggestions. I anxiously await other suggestions and solutions.
The only other solution I can see is shortening the general season like some of the northern states do, states like ohio have only a two week gun season, but there archery season is still 3 months long. As a bowhunter this would be fine with me but it won't fly with the majority of texas deer hunters, so we have the antler restrictions.
Last edited by bossbowman; 05/29/08 01:15 AM.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: helomech]
#364417
05/29/08 01:51 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,187
OFBHWG
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IF IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO THE GROWTH OF QUALITY DEER WHY NOT FOR EVERY COUNTY IN TEXAS?????????????????
When you need a Piano moved there is always someone around to help you with the stool!
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: OFBHWG]
#364418
05/29/08 01:55 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,735
helomech
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
IF IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO THE GROWTH OF QUALITY DEER WHY NOT FOR EVERY COUNTY IN TEXAS?????????????????
I think it is headed that way, but they wanted to try it in some counties first to see if it worked.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: helomech]
#364419
05/29/08 02:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,803
dogcatcher
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Quote:
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IF IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO THE GROWTH OF QUALITY DEER WHY NOT FOR EVERY COUNTY IN TEXAS?????????????????
I think it is headed that way, but they wanted to try it in some counties first to see if it worked.
I don't see that happening. I think the problem is the smaller tracts of land in the eastern part of the state harvesting an excessive amount of deer on a per acre basis.
In the western part of the state there are a lot of these so called ranches that are 100 acres or less, but with the smaller human population in the west half the affect on the wildlife is not as much as the eastern half.
In the future is this method doesn't work I see the state going to a landowner permit system. 1 buck tag per so many acres and 1 doe tag per so many acres. This system would eliminate a lot of the small places of 50 or maybe even a 100 acres from allowing any hunting. I think the antler restrictions were implemented first because a permit system would be a lot harder to and costlier to implement.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2018/09/full-3152-162968-charge_air_assault.jpg)
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: dogcatcher]
#364420
05/29/08 02:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974
bossbowman
Tracker
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IF IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO THE GROWTH OF QUALITY DEER WHY NOT FOR EVERY COUNTY IN TEXAS?????????????????
I think all the current 1 buck counties are headed that way if the majority of land owners and hunters want them, although atoscosa county which is a 3 buck county is listed on the map as under consideration as well, maybe as a test county for the rest of south texas or the hill county.
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In the future is this method doesn't work I see the state going to a landowner permit system. 1 buck tag per so many acres and 1 doe tag per so many acres. This system would eliminate a lot of the small places of 50 or maybe even a 100 acres from allowing any hunting. I think the antler restrictions were implemented first because a permit system would be a lot harder to and costlier to implement.
I think that is the other alternative to a shorter rifle season in the future, I think kansas uses a system similiar to that.
Last edited by bossbowman; 05/29/08 02:51 AM.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: bossbowman]
#364421
05/29/08 10:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,364
Dave Davidson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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I got an EMail about 2 weeks ago from the local State Biologist asking about my thoughts for Montague County.
Overall I figure it might be a good idea.
However, I did tell him that I'm concerned over culls that will never exceed 13 inches.
The reality is that most ranchers know how to handle the cull problem.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: Dave Davidson]
#364422
05/29/08 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13
Bug
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13 |
Like it or not, we have been under ARs for two years. I can't say I've seen any improvement... YET! Actually, it came a year too late for me. I had been watching two bucks steadily improve; one over two years, the other, three. I guess they were taken the year before AR. Sigh!
While I don't have any real problems with ARs as a whole, they don't address two major problems. They make no provisions for taking cull bucks, and they do little-to-nothing to address the buck-to-doe ratio. In my area, the ratio is about 10 does to each buck (at least by my count). Most of that is attributable many small (<100 acres) parcels and relatively high hunting pressure.
A hunting bud and I used to discuss this to no end. The only way we could see to change the situation would be to issue buck tags much as doe tags are issued now. Anyone with a license is allowed to kill at least one deer, more if the populations warrant. Buck tags/permits would be issued on an acreage-based quota, even better if regulated by TPW census counts. If the ARs were in effect, so much the better. It would take a few years to bring our buck/doe ratio into line, but by then, we should be seeing some REAL DEER! But that still doesn't address the cull buck issue!
It's the Little Things, that matter.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: bossbowman]
#364423
05/30/08 02:13 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,400
PKnTX
THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 5,400 |
Solution!?!?!? What's the problem??? Fact: There are more whitetail deer in this state and on this continent than at ANY OTHER TIME IN RECORDED HISTORY!!!! Again, what is this terrible problem that must have a solution????  PK
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: PKnTX]
#364424
06/04/08 08:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974
bossbowman
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974 |
Quote:
Again, what is this terrible problem that must
have a solution????
too many young bucks with good potential being Shot before they even get three years old. Land fragmentation and increased hunting pressure has not helped the situation. You may not notice the problem where your hunting now but chances are in your lifetime you will, the deer population and hunter satisfaction has been on the decline in alot of these 1 buck counties since the 1980's, of course the story is the opposite in south texas.
Last edited by bossbowman; 06/04/08 08:05 PM.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: bossbowman]
#364425
06/04/08 08:24 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,144
jbhlsu
Veteran Tracker
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From what I have seen and heard(biologist) it takes about 7yrs to see vast improvement. We have been on strict mgmt going on 6yrs now....Unbelievable results on our place! East TX 1500 acres~! I have seen only ONE buck in 5 yrs that was mature that might not make the 13" cut????(12 1/2)JMHO 
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: jbhlsu]
#364426
06/05/08 12:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170
Jimbo
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170 |
Quote:
From what I have seen and heard(biologist) it takes about 7yrs to see vast improvement. We have been on strict mgmt going on 6yrs now....Unbelievable results on our place! East TX 1500 acres~! I have seen only ONE buck in 5 yrs that was mature that might not make the 13" cut????(12 1/2)JMHO
Hogwash!
This is a buck I killed last year after only 3 years with the antler restrictions in DeWitt county!
Low fence, no protein, just corn fed!
Last edited by Jimbo; 06/05/08 12:44 AM.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: Jimbo]
#364427
06/11/08 07:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,698
Hoytman
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A.R. STINK! That said i own land thats had antler restrictions for 3yrs now and our population has crashed! Im all for bigger bucks but our county went from 1 buck to 2bucks and 2 does and every small landowner, wich im one of by the way is killing alot of does and young spikes that might grow up to be a decent deer. If they wanted quality they should limit it to 1 buck 13in and maybe 1 doe. I didnt kill any deer last year on my property for the first time in 15yrs.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: Hoytman]
#364428
06/11/08 08:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,550
kyotee1
Extreme Tracker
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The majority of spike bucks may not ever become decent bucks...antler-wise.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: kyotee1]
#364429
06/11/08 08:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 974
bossbowman
Tracker
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Tracker
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Quote:
A.R. STINK! That said i own land thats had antler restrictions for 3yrs now and our population has crashed! Im all for bigger bucks but our county went from 1 buck to 2bucks and 2 does and every small landowner, wich im one of by the way is killing alot of does and young spikes that might grow up to be a decent deer. If they wanted quality they should limit it to 1 buck 13in and maybe 1 doe. I didnt kill any deer last year on my property for the first time in 15yrs.
which county? I have heard some one buck counties and some of the new AR ones deer populations have suffered the last two years, but the reason is generally believed to be a trickle down effect of the horrible drought we had, I guess time will tell. I actually would have no problem with them getting rid of the spike tag and only allowing you to shoot one buck over 13".
Last edited by bossbowman; 06/11/08 09:01 PM.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: kyotee1]
#364430
06/11/08 09:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,162
TexasDefender
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Quote:
The majority of spike bucks may not ever become decent bucks...antler-wise.
I still can't believe TPW feels this way, even though after numerous studies there hasn't been enough evidence to prove "once a spike always a spike" sure it may happen to some deer but spikes have been shown to turn into 140++++ bucks. The real problem is way to many does, you could throw a dart at a map of texas and it's almost always going to land on an overpopulated out of wack buck to do ratio....
Unless you have a high fenced ranch genetics don't mean squat, even on the king ranch http://qdma.org/articles/details.asp?id=124
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: TexasDefender]
#364431
06/11/08 10:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,552
JCB
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
Quote:
The majority of spike bucks may not ever become decent bucks...antler-wise.
I still can't believe TPW feels this way, even though after numerous studies there hasn't been enough evidence to prove "once a spike always a spike" sure it may happen to some deer but spikes have been shown to turn into 140++++ bucks.
I know of one spike that turned into a 280"+B&C!!
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: JCB]
#364432
06/11/08 10:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: JCB]
#364434
06/12/08 01:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474
Crazyhorse
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: Crazyhorse]
#364435
06/12/08 03:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,051
MaggieMTx
THF Trophy Hunter
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See if you look back to that "weird" buck i shot off this place this past season, in an AR country he would have been passed & passed.
He just had TERRIBLE genetic & would have been bad to keep in the gene pool. I think AR restrictions only work in certain areas for certain deer. There are too many that would make a perfect exception but would HAVE to be passed due to a restriction.
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: TexasDefender]
#364436
06/12/08 06:36 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,685
txbobcat
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Quote:
Quote:
The majority of spike bucks may not ever become decent bucks...antler-wise.
I still can't believe TPW feels this way, even though after numerous studies there hasn't been enough evidence to prove "once a spike always a spike" sure it may happen to some deer but spikes have been shown to turn into 140++++ bucks. The real problem is way to many does, you could throw a dart at a map of texas and it's almost always going to land on an overpopulated out of wack buck to do ratio....
Unless you have a high fenced ranch genetics don't mean squat, even on the king ranch http://qdma.org/articles/details.asp?id=124
Have you been to the Kerr WMA??? They are not saying a spike will never grow into a nice mature buck. What they are saying is that on average spike bucks will not grow to near the size of its 4pt plus siblings. So in harvest and buck management they should be taken out.
You are way out in left field if you think genetics dont make a squat!!! 
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Re: Possible New Antler Restrictions
[Re: txbobcat]
#364438
06/12/08 10:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,698
Hoytman
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I have posted this before but i saw a spike buck grow up on my property and his second year he was a 8pt just not 13in and the 3rd he moved on or more than likely shot. I am not a horn hunter by any means and would have taken the 8pt myself if he was legal. They may not get as big as their 4pt yearling brothers but im happy taking a deer as long as its a fair game deer! I will take more deer over so called trophy deer any day! Who knows how many deer we will have this year but one thing i do know is if you have to sit for days and not see any deer the limit should not be 4 deer! I can control how many deer are shot at my property but not my neighbors.
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