i always do a BOS and after the deal is over i make note of what they are driving and their plate number.

you know a member on here a few weeks back sent me some very informative information that has really helped me with selling and trading to private parties and he sent me this message.

Man it's too bad that you aren't closer to me or I would be really tempted you this. If I may I would like to offer you some advice on the whole bill of sale thing. Good luck with selling your pistol.

The 1st being ID theft in giving full names and address people committing this crime can use that information and some people "requiring" a bill of sale want DL #s so that is even more info for the bad guys to use.

Second is theft, both parties don't know each other and can use the information listed in the bill of sale to burglarize the others residence and even if both parties are good people the bill of sale could be found by someone burglarizing one parties residence and the criminal now knows that the other person more than likely has at least one gun. While unlikely a friend of mine was broken into less that a week after buying a gun and doing a bill of sale where only his guns were stolen. Too coincidental we think.

Third is the possibility that the person selling the gun either used the gun as collateral to get a loan or bought the gun with a loan. Either way there is a lien on the gun and the person buying it does not know that and is never considered a bona fide purchaser. When the original owner is approached by a collection agency all he has to do is say I sold that gun to this person at xxx address on this date. Then the person who now owns the gun will be approached and told to hand over the gun or be charged with a crime. So they are now out the money and their gun. They are now screwed twice without having any idea it was coming. For this reason whether you are buying a fridge or a gun you should not do a bill of sale. This advice came from a friend of mine who is a lawyer who got it originally from one of his tenured law professors.

While I hope for our countries sake this is unlikely but due to todays political environment I would not be totally surprised seeing this come around there is a fourth, and that is gun control. Now a lot of people now days would be saying that I am a paranoid crazy person but as a veteran of 2 military branches, law enforcement veteran, and currently work for the federal government I feel I can be a little wary if I choose to be.

hopefully this will help a number of you folks that seem a little skitish with demanding a BOS

I've never required a bill of sale, I've only filled out a BOS as a buyer once.

As far as shadiness of a buyer or seller, I personally use my judge of character.

I've actually never turned down a sale nor had one cancel due to precautions/paranoia.

I've been invited into houses for sales with no trouble but personally don't let people past my garage.

I've bought guns from someone as far away as Alaska but most of my deals are FTF. (Helps with judge of character bit as a seller).

Good luck with your transactions.

I've met people at their home and i've had one come to my apt. Since i live at an apt i have people meet me outside the apt office. Have also met people in front, bass pro, sporting good stores etc. Just use common sence if you dont feel right about just pass on the deal no harm no foul.

I've been doing private buying and selling transactions for more than 30 years. I have bought and sold more things than I could count or guesstimate. I have never once had a bad transaction.

I usually meet people at a public location - either a Walmart, Academy, Bass Pro, Cabellas, etc. and often times where I work in the parking lot (I don't work at one of the mamby pamby places that don't allow firearms in the parking lot - hell, this is Texas).

I have had people over at my house but only after I have known them for awhile - and to be truthful it's been years since I've done it at all (and not since I moved back to the metroplex).

I never require a BOS or look at IDs. They say it's only to protect the buyer but I'm not selling to gang bangers and drug dealers, it isn't needed (IMO) - nor is it legally required.

That said, I have no problem receiving a BOS, showing my license, etc. when buying. If a buyer requests that I do so when selling, I have no problem doing so either.

Earl

I've asked for a copy of a drivers license once to ship a rifle in Texas. Told him I didn't care if the address was there or not just wanted to make sure he was old enough to have a firearm.

Bill of Sale will protect you for the most part I get a DL# and a signature

I think there has been good suggestions listed above and I think/hope everybody has good intentions when selling and buying. Unfortunately, in life sometimes you get screwed hopefully you don't do the same to someone else because of it. You want to protect yourself as far as legal issues that may arrise but don't look for a bad guy behind every bush. I don't think there is a clear cut way that everyone will/can agree on a way of privately selling or buying guns in Texas. And Thank God that we live in a state that doesn't regulate us to death when it comes to firearms.

Side note, don't forget to search the Trading Post Golden Rule thread before you make a decision.
http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/u...e_Go#Post185432

What is the law in Texas concerning private party sales, when shipping firearms (handguns or rifles) through the mail within the state of Texas? It doesn't need to go to an FFL if both parties are in Texas?

Just curious. I would assume it would be the same as a face to face transaction. I'm also under the impression that UPS and USPS require handguns to be shipped to an FFL, but USPS is ok with rifles, is this correct?

Thanks for any clarification.

A few years ago I bought a rifle from a guy that had advertised on TGT. He had inherited some guns and had never sold one before. I had about 5 phone conversations with him, and he kept saying that he couldn't believe it was so easy. I just smiled and said, "Welcome to Texas". He asked for my DL, had me sign a Bill of Sale, and I swear he took a picture of my license plate when I was leaving. I just sort of laughed it off. Funny thing is, about 6 months later I bought another gun from him. I met him in the Cabela's parking lot, he showed me the gun, I produced the cash, and the whole deal was over in 30 seconds. I locked the gun up in my truck, and we walked together into Cabelas and went shopping.

I would never give my DL info to someone with all the ID theft going on these days. Even if the guy is on the level, you don't know what security he is using with your personal info.
If showing an ID isn't enough, I'll pass on the deal. There's no need to exchange all that info on a private deal, and no legitimate reason to ask for it. I refuse to keep a dossier on every person who buys a gun from me. I'd like someone to cite one instance where having a bill of sale on a used gun saved that person some real legal trouble- in Texas.

Old Mike,

you can ship long guns in-state with no FFL. I use UPS, but have used USPS before. Handguns must go through FFL if shipping, can't ship direct, unless it is a Curio and Relic firearm and the buyer has the appropriate C&R license. Then he can buy C&R hand guns direct to his home with no FFL. ATF has the form on their webpage, send it and they send you a big packet with the forms to mail back to them.

Don't trust strangers with your personal info! I keep a log of firearms bought and sold, with serial numbers, and the dates, so if any questions were to ever come up, I have that.

i like that guntrader form. the seller needs to be responsible. keep guns out of bad peoples hands. guns arent bad, people are.

I've bought four guns through this board - using only my instincts and a feel for the person based on their posts. No Bill of Sale - just a handshake. All of the guys I've dealt with are really nice folks.

I also make it clear who I am, where I live and all of my contact info, including work. These are not things I would do anywhere except here - with people who post!

Marc

1. Well lit, wide open place for the deal. Nothing within 100 yards for anybody to hide behind means no surprises without time to react.

2. I try to come alone. If there's trouble I don't want to drag anybody else into it and sure as heck don't want to have to protect somebody else while saving my own neck.

3. Armed to the teeth!

4. Bill of sale? Meh. If they insist. I've given two THFers my personal info and don't much worry about it. I'm a pretty good judge of character and they had no red flags whatsoever. Besides, I'm easy to find by design. If somebody's looking for me I want them to find me and get it over with, whatever "it" may be. If somebody wants to break in and steal, there's four dogs and a wall of lead in their path and homeowner insurance if they succeed and live through it.

5. The last deal I did put a bad taste in my mouth. I got sold a junk gun that was "flawless" but for some reason won't rack the next round. Research the gun you're planning on buying and field strip it if you can. Check that thing inside and out and know in advance what you're getting yourself into. I still haven't figured out how I'm gonna handle this $300 rip off, but I ain't the kind of heel who'd knowingly sell a gun that don't work on a lie that it's "flawless". That one was from a guy on here and two people vouched for him. I guess he needed my $300 and I needed a lesson. Buyer beware I reckon. I've halted all buying, selling, and trading until I resolve the matter.

I do deals all the time. I could care less about a bill of sale, but have no problem if the other guy wants one. As for meetup, I always prefer to meet at my office. We can both be comfortable examining the items in a secure, private location. If we have to meet somewhere, large parking lots work for me. I park away from the bulk of cars, out in the open area. I want to be out in the open for cops, other customers, and their mothers to see. I'm not doing anything illegal, and if something illegal (i.e. someone tried to rob me) happened, I'd want everyone to have a good view of it.

If someone is with me, it's only because they happened to be with me. I don't make sure to have someone, as I am fine to meet alone. I will not meet without talking on the phone first. After I hear their voice, have a number saved in my phone, and their profile name, I figure that's enough for me to feel comfortable.

Overall, I'm not too worried. I figure there are easier marks for thieves/robbers than armed gun owners. In the dozens and dozens of gun transactions I've made, I've never been in an uncomfortable situation. 90% of guys I meet are 40+ years old an normal folks. The few young guys I've dealt with have all been extremely respectful young men that I was happy to meet. One time, and only one time, I felt uneasy about dealing with the guy. I simply cancelled the deal. I would never deal with anyone that I felt the least bit uneasy with.

Btw, I deal with people from different sites, but THF is my favorite. Not only have I felt ok selling guns to every THFer I've ever met, I would probably be ok having them around my kids... If I had any.

I don't require bills of sale, or to see a CHL. Just because I don't have a CHL, you wouldn't sell me a gun?? I've done hundreds of transactions here. Firefighter/paramedic for 16 years, and couple thousand posts. I hate seeing when someone won't sell because the other party doesnt have a "CHL"! Second ammendment IS my CHL.

Make the deal then have your father complete the face-to-face transaction!

I always discuss the details of any deal beforehand with a potential buyer/seller before meeting, and meet at a public location we can both agree on. If someone requires a CHL for a sale then I guess they just don't want to sell it to me, which is ok too. I don't give out private information and don't expect anyone to give me theirs either. I've done quite a few deals here and so far, have never had an issue.

I think the CHL requirement that lots of folks like to throw around is to establish to the best of their ability that the buyer is not a felon and is legally able to purchase a firearm in the great state of Texas.

I have never had a problem with anyone off of this sight and i have probably done about 50 transactions. I even did a gun trasaction with a guy from pennsylvania. He was the more trusting party, he sent his gun to my ffl and once i recieved it. i sent his.

Bill of sale is not a must. Taking a picture of DL is ridiculous IMO. What happens if your cell phone or camera gets stolen or lost and the thief finds the pic of the DL with the gun. They decide to go to the gun buyers home, break in his house, steals the gun, rapes his wife and kills his children. Seems like you should be liable for not protecting his personal information.

I would never buy or sell from or to someone who wanted any of my personal info. It is unnecessary, not required by law, and poses a risk to BOTH parties.

I have never had one deal go sour. Did back out once, when someone wanted me to meet them in South Oak Cliff.....

I'm pretty detailed about my parameters, so anything outside my comfort zone will not happen.

I don't do a BOS. Have always shown my CHL, but anyone who thinks there going to jot down my info, is full of crap. Won't happen nor will I copy anyone else's.

Public parking lots are best. LOL. Think RicklyTX and I did more firearm business in Dicks Sporting Goods parking lot then they did.

X2 on all of that!