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Quail "Surrogator" #3506850 08/24/12 02:38 PM
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Eland Slayer Offline OP
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Have any of you had experience using the "Traditional Surrogator" from Wildlife Management Technologies?

Traditional Surrogator

If so, what are your opinions of it, and did it work well?

Also, have any of you used it in East Texas? We are looking at possibly purchasing one for our property in Huntsville. Any info (good or bad) would be much appreciated.

Thanks.



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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Eland Slayer] #3506888 08/24/12 02:53 PM
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I have no experience with them myself, however my thought is that if the habitat deteriorated to the point that it could no longer support quail, simply adding a surrogator will not do the trick. You will have to make a serious overhaul to the land before I would waste the time on it, and even once you have re-established the habitat it will be very hard.


Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Raymond07] #3506930 08/24/12 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Raymond07
I have no experience with them myself, however my thought is that if the habitat deteriorated to the point that it could no longer support quail, simply adding a surrogator will not do the trick. You will have to make a serious overhaul to the land before I would waste the time on it, and even once you have re-established the habitat it will be very hard.


Well....in the case of east Texas, I believe you are looking at it the wrong way. There are many other factors that have contributed to not having quail besides habitat deterioration. This includes: land fragmentation, over-hunting, timber harvest, etc...

There have not been sizable populations of wild quail in the Huntsville area for decades, so the habitat is now totally different in certain areas that it was 30 years ago....and some of the "new" habitat is probably very good for quail, but there are no quail around anymore to even have a chance of natural re-population. Hence the appeal of the Surrogator.

I hope that made sense....lol



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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Eland Slayer] #3506952 08/24/12 03:18 PM
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Man it cant happen anymore....I turned loose over 1200 birds in a prime place full of bunch grass for quail on the trinity bottom for 4 yrs.. they will last the year and you will see stragalers for a good while but they just arnt able to reproduce...to many factors against them these days and hay fields being the main one IMO. Even if you got 1000acres of natural habbitat it just dosnt seem to be enough. This was about 20 miles from Huntsville twords lovelady on 4,000 acres.....crazy thing was the ones that survived the longest were the ones that stayed around the barn and lodge in culverts


Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Navasot] #3507004 08/24/12 03:35 PM
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It might work for put and take.



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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Navasot] #3507026 08/24/12 03:39 PM
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Try qualitywildlife.com for the latest equipment on setting up stations. I doubt if it will work over 4 months for you. good luck!
Tom


Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Navasot] #3507209 08/24/12 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: Navasot
Man it cant happen anymore....I turned loose over 1200 birds in a prime place full of bunch grass for quail on the trinity bottom for 4 yrs.. they will last the year and you will see stragalers for a good while but they just arnt able to reproduce...to many factors against them these days and hay fields being the main one IMO. Even if you got 1000acres of natural habbitat it just dosnt seem to be enough. This was about 20 miles from Huntsville twords lovelady on 4,000 acres.....crazy thing was the ones that survived the longest were the ones that staye d around the barn and lodge in culverts


Finding safety in a culverts is a sign of day time and night time predation, both hawks and owls.

If you can get a few of the survivors to reproduce you might get the quail started again.


Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Coldwind] #3507268 08/24/12 04:50 PM
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Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm you could build a gas booder much cheaper then the Surrogator,I plan to release a couple thousand bob whites next spring on my east texas lease as well,they might not make it ,but just maybe they will???????????????????????








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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Coldwind] #3507510 08/24/12 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Coldwind
Originally Posted By: Navasot
Man it cant happen anymore....I turned loose over 1200 birds in a prime place full of bunch grass for quail on the trinity bottom for 4 yrs.. they will last the year and you will see stragalers for a good while but they just arnt able to reproduce...to many factors against them these days and hay fields being the main one IMO. Even if you got 1000acres of natural habbitat it just dosnt seem to be enough. This was about 20 miles from Huntsville twords lovelady on 4,000 acres.....crazy thing was the ones that survived the longest were the ones that staye d around the barn and lodge in culverts


Finding safety in a culverts is a sign of day time and night time predation, both hawks and owls.

If you can get a few of the survivors to reproduce you might get the quail started again.


Yup and that area is full of owls, eagles, hawks..that is a main area the red tails come through each year.and theres nothing you can do about it. Had huge pastures of native bunch grass and also brush piles for saftey everywere... Unless there is a huge preditor plauge and hay farmers decide to turn their coastal fields back to bunch/native grass...quail are nothing but a good story in that part of texas now


Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: bill oxner] #3507517 08/24/12 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: bill oxner
It might work for put and take.


Yezzir!


Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Navasot] #3507634 08/24/12 06:48 PM
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Oxner is right. It will work for put and take. Predators will enjoy many of them too. This topic is on-going here on THF, but if you're like me - you're going to do it anyway so - have FUN!



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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: reeltexan] #3507816 08/24/12 07:50 PM
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It'll probably work out cheaper than a lease. My last season lease was in 2007/08. My 2 quail cost me $1,750 each. We went twice, or maybe 3 times.



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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: bill oxner] #3507979 08/24/12 08:29 PM
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Deffinintly cheaper if you got a flyin pen and can order alot at a time


Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Navasot] #3508043 08/24/12 08:48 PM
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They don't start out in a flight pen with the Surrogator. Go back and look at the video.



Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: bill oxner] #3508153 08/24/12 09:25 PM
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I know i was just saying to do your own release hunts. I dnt like the birds out of a flight pen cuz tha dogs catch alot of them and the pen raised birds stink bad. but it is an easy process and for sure numbers


Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Navasot] #3508594 08/25/12 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: Navasot
I know i was just saying to do your own release hunts. I dnt like the birds out of a flight pen cuz tha dogs catch alot of them and the pen raised birds stink bad. but it is an easy process and for sure numbers


You have to train your dogs a little differently for them. I walk them out and around the pointing dog. Here you go;





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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: bill oxner] #3509973 08/25/12 01:53 PM
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Nice!


Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Navasot] #3515356 08/27/12 05:38 AM
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Might work...might not...depending on the habitat you release them in. Not willing to spend over 2,000 for a quail hunt tho!


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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: P1DTAY] #3515513 08/27/12 11:51 AM
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Like they said-put and take only.

Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Huntmaster] #3516183 08/27/12 03:26 PM
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The problem with the fields/ hay fields is that they're often a monoculture. Quail have a fairly small home range and thick grass leaves nothing for brooding or escape cover. They need a large variety of cover in a small area. I re-established a few coveys around Brenham a few years back and I cut the fields into wavy lines 1 line cut 3 lines uncut and left as much wooly croton as possible and between a few cows, a little timber, semi- cut pastures, milo ect. We've had a few coveys arounds for years now and our neighbors see the quail now and then. Before no one had ever scene a quail bird.


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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: aoudadhunter] #3516289 08/27/12 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: aoudadhunter
The problem with the fields/ hay fields is that they're often a monoculture. Quail have a fairly small home range and thick grass leaves nothing for brooding or escape cover. They need a large variety of cover in a small area. I re-established a few coveys around Brenham a few years back and I cut the fields into wavy lines 1 line cut 3 lines uncut and left as much wooly croton as possible and between a few cows, a little timber, semi- cut pastures, milo ect. We've had a few coveys arounds for years now and our neighbors see the quail now and then. Before no one had ever scene a quail bird.

You need to contact Jim Willis. He helped several ranches in your area. Here's a link;
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/...ail-1764954.php


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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: bill oxner] #3516947 08/27/12 07:41 PM
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I've heard, and from research found that a lot has to do with the actual bird. To make it even possible for them to realistically survive past a season and reproduce they need to be very strong flyers. Another issue is going to be the weather, obviously as texans we know that it changes constantly and the birds need to be used to this. Then of course there are all the other factors: predators, habitat, food/water sources. From what I've found is that you need to find strong flying birds and create shelter and a centralized food and water system. This is gonna be the best chance at reproduction and survival. The best system I've found for this is the "covey base camp" there was a lot of research put into it and it should be successful with quality birds.

Then of course you can always go the Johnny house route and maintain your population with few losses for a few seasons.

Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Eland Slayer] #3551669 09/07/12 10:31 PM
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seems like an awful lot of money!


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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: Wstxhunter] #3585383 09/19/12 02:09 PM
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I tried to get quail established on my land. After a few conversations with biologists (Eric Garza) and literature sent to me by Texas parks and wild life. It looks like a no go with pen raised birds. They have no natural instinct to survive. They are just looking for a place to die. We put out birds with the surrogator and it did it's job. The birds didn't do thiers. I did notice that if you already have a wild covey they lasted longer than if you only had pen raised birds. Here are a few reading materials. Good Luck.

The Birders Handbook: A field guide to the natural history of North American birds. New York: Simon and Schuster Inc.

Robbins, C.S., B. Bruun, and H.S. Zim. 1966. Birds of North America. New York: Western Publishing Company, Inc.

Lehmann, V.W. 1984. Bobwhites in the Rio Grande plain of Texas. Texas A&M University Press, College Station.

Oberholser, H.O. 1974. The bird life of Texas. University of Texas Press, Austin.
Texas Game, Fish, and Oyster Commission. 1945. Principal game birds and mammals of Texas. Texas Game, Fish, and Oyster Commission, Austin.

Jackson, A.S., C. Holt, and D.W. Lay. Bobwhite quail in Texas: habitat needs and management suggestions. Texas Parks & Wildlife, Austin. 21pp.


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Re: Quail "Surrogator" [Re: hook_n_line] #3585767 09/19/12 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: hook_n_line
I tried to get quail established on my land. After a few conversations with biologists (Eric Garza) and literature sent to me by Texas parks and wild life. It looks like a no go with pen raised birds. They have no natural instinct to survive. They are just looking for a place to die. We put out birds with the surrogator and it did it's job. The birds didn't do thiers. I did notice that if you already have a wild covey they lasted longer than if you only had pen raised birds. Here are a few reading materials. Good Luck.

The Birders Handbook: A field guide to the natural history of North American birds. New York: Simon and Schuster Inc.

Robbins, C.S., B. Bruun, and H.S. Zim. 1966. Birds of North America. New York: Western Publishing Company, Inc.

Lehmann, V.W. 1984. Bobwhites in the Rio Grande plain of Texas. Texas A&M University Press, College Station.

Oberholser, H.O. 1974. The bird life of Texas. University of Texas Press, Austin.
Texas Game, Fish, and Oyster Commission. 1945. Principal game birds and mammals of Texas. Texas Game, Fish, and Oyster Commission, Austin.

Jackson, A.S., C. Holt, and D.W. Lay. Bobwhite quail in Texas: habitat needs and management suggestions. Texas Parks & Wildlife, Austin. 21pp.





The conservation biologists will recommend heavily against pen raised birds and probably with good reason, but there isn't anything about bob-whites you purchased from a feed store that means they can not be a viable foundation for introduced, wild coveys. It's luck of the draw. Pen raised birds have generally been selected as good layers rather than for wariness and agility, but if you have the right habitat (I would add that this is a huge "if"; ask Boone Pickens how much he spent to get his ranch optimized for quail and if he can still do anything else with it) and are willing to pour some work and money into the goal of establishing some coveys, you can probably be just as successful with the offspring of pen-raised market birds as you can from the high-dollar wild strains.

You can also try bringing in a few wild cocks to cross with your penned hens and use their offspring as your colony foundation year after year.

There are a lot of ways to eat that elephant, but, as has been mentioned, saying a prayer and kissing 2000 birds goodbye into a cattle pasture is likely to be just that.

You may find some good information at this forum: http://www.thatquailplace.com


Last edited by GriffGruff78; 09/19/12 04:25 PM.
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