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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: btpatriot]
#3354003
07/07/12 01:51 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550
rtp
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550 |
I have asked this question numerous times and never get an answer.
In a LF freerange environemnt, i.e., no selective breeding, has there ever been a study done that says a stud buck produces stud offspring or a avg to below avg buck produces similar offspring?
I see it all the time in humans. A small man will produce a giant for a son and vice versa. Why would we expect it to be different in deer? In a natural environemnt I think it is totally random as to what each buck/doe combination produces. Im all for understanding CC, habitat control and letting deer get some age on them.
Let'em grow old
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: btpatriot]
#3354047
07/07/12 02:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
the word mistake implies having the wrong answer however in my experience there rarely is a completely wrong answer just situations where better answers are available Experienced to me means I or someone has fixed what was broken or they messed up. I am very experienced 
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people? ![[Linked Image]](http://neoswarm.com/images/Bug_Crawling.gif)
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: rtp]
#3354052
07/07/12 02:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 595
webb1974
Tracker
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Im saying this but also asking if it sounds correct. A friend of mine said any of his does that are bred late will almost always have a fawn that at 1.5 will be a spike but will catch up at 2.5. If this is correct then i think its crazy that anyone can think this deer was inferior.
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: rtp]
#3354055
07/07/12 02:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I have asked this question numerous times and never get an answer.
In a LF freerange environemnt, i.e., no selective breeding, has there ever been a study done that says a stud buck produces stud offspring or a avg to below avg buck produces similar offspring?
I see it all the time in humans. A small man will produce a giant for a son and vice versa. Why would we expect it to be different in deer? In a natural environemnt I think it is totally random as to what each buck/doe combination produces. Im all for understanding CC, habitat control and letting deer get some age on them. IMO that is hard to answer since to many other questions have to be asked first. Just like in humans it took the right 2 getting together at the right time. All the stars must align. Lot of ifs ands or buts also to answer that question.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: webb1974]
#3354060
07/07/12 02:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Im saying this but also asking if it sounds correct. A friend of mine said any of his does that are bred late will almost always have a fawn that at 1.5 will be a spike but will catch up at 2.5. If this is correct then i think its crazy that anyone can think this deer was inferior. Define "late" and how is he 100% sure they all are spikes?
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: stxranchman]
#3354075
07/07/12 02:18 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 595
webb1974
Tracker
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Tracker
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Mid dec to jan is late where we are from. And i have no idea if he knows or not. I said friend so i wouldnt have to spell acquaintance but you forced me into it. I know the man but he may be full of it.
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: webb1974]
#3354087
07/07/12 02:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Many deer rut and breed in South Texas that late normally every year. If that were the case there would be nothing but spikes every year. IMO if deer are breeding "late" for your area then it might be a couple things. Either to many does due to a bad buck to doe ratio or doe fawns are coming into heat and getting bred (which happens way more than we think it does in the wild).
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: stxranchman]
#3354122
07/07/12 02:34 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 595
webb1974
Tracker
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Tracker
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Our rut is mid november. His place is only 400 acres and HF. I have no idea on his buck to doe ratio. His fence borders one side of my place and i have only talked to him a few times and it was about a month ago that we had this conversation so i thought it was weird when i was reading this debate.
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: webb1974]
#3354139
07/07/12 02:40 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 595
webb1974
Tracker
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On the original post its very easy on my place to determine a cull buck. There is just no question about it when one comes in but we also have a low deer density so we dont have to worry about should we shoot young deer.We just dont do it unless we take a kid hunting.
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: stxranchman]
#3354925
07/07/12 03:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550
rtp
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,550 |
I have asked this question numerous times and never get an answer.
In a LF freerange environemnt, i.e., no selective breeding, has there ever been a study done that says a stud buck produces stud offspring or a avg to below avg buck produces similar offspring?
I see it all the time in humans. A small man will produce a giant for a son and vice versa. Why would we expect it to be different in deer? In a natural environemnt I think it is totally random as to what each buck/doe combination produces. Im all for understanding CC, habitat control and letting deer get some age on them. IMO that is hard to answer since to many other questions have to be asked first. Just like in humans it took the right 2 getting together at the right time. All the stars must align. Lot of ifs ands or buts also to answer that question. Exactly, so IMHO, in a LF environment it is futile to think culling is going to make a difference. You have to concentrate on the things you can control. Of course this is where the real work is and most do not want to do what it takes in those areas. They like the part of putting a bullet in a deer and calling it a cull in the name of management. Nothing wrong with putting a bullet in a deer but dont kid yourself by calling it a cull when you are not addressing anything else in a sound management plan.  over 
Let'em grow old
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: rtp]
#3354971
07/07/12 03:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I have asked this question numerous times and never get an answer.
In a LF freerange environemnt, i.e., no selective breeding, has there ever been a study done that says a stud buck produces stud offspring or a avg to below avg buck produces similar offspring?
I see it all the time in humans. A small man will produce a giant for a son and vice versa. Why would we expect it to be different in deer? In a natural environemnt I think it is totally random as to what each buck/doe combination produces. Im all for understanding CC, habitat control and letting deer get some age on them. IMO that is hard to answer since to many other questions have to be asked first. Just like in humans it took the right 2 getting together at the right time. All the stars must align. Lot of ifs ands or buts also to answer that question. Exactly, so IMHO, in a LF environment it is futile to think culling is going to make a difference. You have to concentrate on the things you can control. Of course this is where the real work is and most do not want to do what it takes in those areas. They like the part of putting a bullet in a deer and calling it a cull in the name of management. Nothing wrong with putting a bullet in a deer but dont kid yourself by calling it a cull when you are not addressing anything else in a sound management plan. over But those willing to put forth effort to cull and keep culling will see the results. There as some LF ranches that have been doing it for years with some pretty great results. They address all aspects of management along with a heavy culling program also. You are correct one will not work with the other IMO.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: Don Dial]
#3355040
07/07/12 04:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 186
jrye
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 186 |
Any deer you take out of the herd is a cull.
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: rtp]
#3355167
07/07/12 05:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
That's not entirely accurate.... I'm also too lazy to skin a "cull" so no reason for me attempting to enjoy putting a bullet in one. I have asked this question numerous times and never get an answer.
In a LF freerange environemnt, i.e., no selective breeding, has there ever been a study done that says a stud buck produces stud offspring or a avg to below avg buck produces similar offspring?
I see it all the time in humans. A small man will produce a giant for a son and vice versa. Why would we expect it to be different in deer? In a natural environemnt I think it is totally random as to what each buck/doe combination produces. Im all for understanding CC, habitat control and letting deer get some age on them. IMO that is hard to answer since to many other questions have to be asked first. Just like in humans it took the right 2 getting together at the right time. All the stars must align. Lot of ifs ands or buts also to answer that question. Exactly, so IMHO, in a LF environment it is futile to think culling is going to make a difference. You have to concentrate on the things you can control. Of course this is where the real work is and most do not want to do what it takes in those areas. They like the part of putting a bullet in a deer and calling it a cull in the name of management. Nothing wrong with putting a bullet in a deer but dont kid yourself by calling it a cull when you are not addressing anything else in a sound management plan. over
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: rifleman]
#3355274
07/07/12 06:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
That's not entirely accurate.... I'm also too lazy to skin a "cull" so no reason for me attempting to enjoy putting a bullet in one. I have asked this question numerous times and never get an answer.
In a LF freerange environemnt, i.e., no selective breeding, has there ever been a study done that says a stud buck produces stud offspring or a avg to below avg buck produces similar offspring?
I see it all the time in humans. A small man will produce a giant for a son and vice versa. Why would we expect it to be different in deer? In a natural environemnt I think it is totally random as to what each buck/doe combination produces. Im all for understanding CC, habitat control and letting deer get some age on them. IMO that is hard to answer since to many other questions have to be asked first. Just like in humans it took the right 2 getting together at the right time. All the stars must align. Lot of ifs ands or buts also to answer that question. Exactly, so IMHO, in a LF environment it is futile to think culling is going to make a difference. You have to concentrate on the things you can control. Of course this is where the real work is and most do not want to do what it takes in those areas. They like the part of putting a bullet in a deer and calling it a cull in the name of management. Nothing wrong with putting a bullet in a deer but dont kid yourself by calling it a cull when you are not addressing anything else in a sound management plan. over And the truth shall set you free..... 
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: stxranchman]
#3360236
07/09/12 06:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258
AmoCuernos
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,258 |
Culling is just pruning a hedge into the shape you want it...
The hedge is going to try to grow back into a round bush again... and would if you left it alone... but you can have it whatever shape you want WHILE you are pruning... as long as you prune enough...
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: AmoCuernos]
#3360238
07/09/12 06:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
If you over prune or outside factors come into play the shrub could die
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: rifleman]
#3360248
07/09/12 06:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
But if you prune the bottom limbs and only leave to top limbs to regrow they can then shade out any new growth on the bottom.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: stxranchman]
#3360254
07/09/12 06:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484
Big Orn
great white gorilla
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great white gorilla
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484 |
 ...I think...
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: Big Orn]
#3360266
07/09/12 06:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
...I think... You have to be a deep thinker now...really deep to grasp the true meaning 
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: stxranchman]
#3360273
07/09/12 06:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
But if you prune the bottom limbs and only leave to top limbs to regrow they can then shade out any new growth on the bottom. It won't shade out the roots 
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: rifleman]
#3360279
07/09/12 06:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
But if you prune the bottom limbs and only leave to top limbs to regrow they can then shade out any new growth on the bottom. It won't shade out the roots If that were the case it would have died already.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: stxranchman]
#3360283
07/09/12 06:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
They're the root cause of the need to prune and yet you can't even see them or take care of that issue without killing the entire shrub and replacing it with another.
Big O, gonna need sonar for this depth.
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: stxranchman]
#3360292
07/09/12 06:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258
AmoCuernos
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,258 |
But if you prune the bottom limbs and only leave to top limbs to regrow they can then shade out any new growth on the bottom. What? ROFL... on a different hedge maybe? But that wasn't my analogy... you can't starve the bottom of a bush of sunlight and make it die when it shares the same root system with the leaves getting sun.
Last edited by AmoCuernos; 07/09/12 06:57 PM.
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: AmoCuernos]
#3360298
07/09/12 06:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
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Re: Culls.....Exactly what do you think a Cull is?
[Re: stxranchman]
#3360356
07/09/12 07:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484
Big Orn
great white gorilla
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great white gorilla
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484 |
...I think... You have to be a deep thinker now...really deep to grasp the true meaning Well i'm in trouble then...
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