There is so much info out there it is beyond confusing and when making a purchase this big, I want to do it as right as possible. Just when you think you have set a pretty high budget, someone mentions that range of scopes are crap. I guess unless you have a 20K budget then all the lower priced scoped might be considered subpar but I don't have that budget so I am going to spend the most I have ever spent on a subpar product I guess but it is all I can spend.

My budget is between $4,000 and $4,750. I see 3 scopes that seem to all have some good comments about them (more than others)that fit the budget.

The Morovision M740 or 760, the Jager pro D760-3AGM or 3AG hand select, and the ATN Mars 3A or 3P series.

I would like to hear your thoughts on these scopes and anything I might have missed. Also, will these all handle a .308 recoil without issues?

Thanks for your insite, for me this is a big purchase and I would like to at least feel like I made the best decision.

I have two ATN scopes. You know, I won't be buying another.

Keep in mind that few folks have lots of night vision experience. They have often had one or two scopes at most and will likely proclaim what they have is good. The problem is that there is just about no place to try out multiple scopes to see what works best and what works best for you.

My Gen 1 ATN Paladin scope isn't bad except it is Gen 1 and has poor light amplification. I put nice little laser illuminator on (Luna Optics ELIR) and it is easily functional out to 150+ yards, but the scope is huge as a Gen 1 scope.

You will be amazed at how much better whatever nightvision you get if you get a good illuminator for it.

The only scope that I have seen that comes with a good illuminator is Pulsar's Digisight. The illuminator on the scope works better than any oneboard/built in illuminator I have seen, but it is mediocre at best when compared to what you get when you light your field of view with a laser illuminator.

I believe all the scopes you have listed are fine with .308. Most NV rifle scopes will handle up to .308 with no problem. Beyond .308, check with the manufacturer. Some scopes are fine for more and some definitely are not.

The best thing you can do is not get in a hurry and see if folks will let you try their scopes and see what you think.

Gen III scopes are supposed to have superior light amplification than Gen II and Gen II over Gen I. I haven't seen any Gen I scopes better than a Gen II, but I have seen high end Gen II scopes that performed better than low end Gen III.

Even with good light amplification, even some Gen III scopes aren't going to be much good without a decent illuminator such as in a well canopied forest. They might work out in the open with starlight, but when the starlight doesn't come through the leaves, you need an illuminator.

Another consideration for you may be to have a spotting scope as well. Regular daylight hunters will often use binoculars so as to not have to wave their rifles around to use the scope to see things at distance. The same goes for night time. It can be a pain in the butt to have a NV rifle scope and trying to find your prey, scanning everything in the immediate vicinity with your muzzle. Having a nice NV spotting scope to at least spot potential prey before breaking out the rifle with high quality NV rifle scope.

PM sent your way!

Greg,

The options can be confusing but you're on the right track with your budget. Let me try to shed a little light on your options.

First, let me say that the scopes that you're looking out are great choices....I can't speak for the ATN models but we use D-740's and D-760's in our guide operation 3-4 nights a week...52 weeks a year. New moon or full moon...they work great!

One thing that you need to realize is that those D-740's and D-760's that you mentioned come from the same place...Night Optics USA, a division of Bushnell. Morovision and Jager Pro, are dealers/distributors for Night Optics, just like I am. The scopes are the same.

The main difference between the 740's and 760's are obviously size and magnification. The D-740 series is a smaller, fixed 4-power scope and the D-760 series is a slightly larger, 6-power unit.

The D-740 and D-760 are both available with Gen 2 and Gen 3 tubes. The Gen 3 scopes are further divided into 4 models...3S, 3G, 3SM and 3GM. (Night Optics changed it's numbering scheme this year, so you may see some discrepancies lurking around)

In a nutshell, the 3S has a "S"tandard non-gated Gen 3 tube. The 3G comes with an auto"G"ated, thin-film, Gen 3 tube. The 3SM and 3GM models are just like their little brothers except that they each come equipped with "M"anual gain.

The other thing to consider is the "Hand select" option, which typically costs and additional $250, which is money well-spent, IMHO. Long story short, if you get the hand-select option, you'll receive a better quality tube, with a Signal-Noise ratio that is Greater than 27.0 . If you don't choose the hand-select option, your tube will typically have a SNR less than 27.

Hopefully this makes things a little clearer...if not, give me a shout and I'll answer any questions that you have. We sell more D-760-3GM-HS than any other model, but I would be happy to talk to you about the others as well....or clip-ons...or thermal...or goggles...or suppressors... etc. We're a couple of weeks away from launching a new online storefront. There are a lot of things that aren't in the current online store but we'll soon be adding a couple of hundred new items. If you don't see what you want, give me a shout...I can get it.

Good Luck!...and Happy Hunting!

+1 To what Tactical Hog control said. If you you happen to be in the Dallas area and want to get the chance to look through some different night vision gear we do demo on Tues and Thurs nights at our shop in Rockwall. Just let use know.

Thanks for the replies. That does help explain a few things. I'm going to try to see if I can look through a few devices over the next month or so and then bite the bullet and pick one out and hope for the best.

Greg

Wise decision Greg! I'm about 1/2 way between Houston and Dallas, so if you're in the area, give me a shout....I'll be happy to meet you for a demo one night. D-740's, D-760's, Raptors and more...all the way down to the Pulsar N550 on a 25 cal air rifle plus 6 different models of thermal scopes. That might make your decision a little easier.

How much are those D760 3GM Hs ?

The D760 isn't all that it's cracked up to be. The have serious distance focusing issues. Your better off with the Pulsar Gen 3 pinnacle units. I've compared them side by side at night and the Pulsar is superior to the D760. It also costs a little less. I don't even carry the D740 or D760 at gun shows anymore, there not worth it when compared to the new Pulsar gen3 units.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion....

According to your website, the Signal to Noise ratio for your Pulsar-4X scopes is "not less than / typical value: 16.2/21".

Now, I read that as being "not less that 16.2, with a typical value of 21". I can't remember the last time I bought a D740 or D760 with a tube in it that had less than a 25 SNR. If you opt for the hand-select option, you will be guaranteed to get a tube with a signal to noise ratio of at least 27.0

The tubes that we get in our autogated D-740's and D-760's are also ITT, thin-film, Pinnacle tubes....they just have a lot better specs than the Pulsar unit.

We've used D760's for years in our guide operation, without any focusing issues. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here...just trying to answer the OP's question.

The quality in D740 and D760 is blown way out of the actually specs. I have people at every gun show trying to trade those units in because they are not satified with them. Your also looking at or Gen 2+ scopes not our Gen 3 Pinnacle units. If someone wants to waste money on a overpriced scope, go at it.

I don't want to hi-jack the OP's thread, but, I'm NOT looking at Gen2+ scopes....these numbers came from your website....

Model: Phantom Generation 3 4x60 Mil-Dot Reticle
Model #: PL76076T
Generation: 3
Tube Type: ITT F9800SLG Pinnacle
Useful photocathode diameter, mm: 18
Photocathode Type: GaAs
Integral Photocathode Sensitivity: 1350
Signal to Noise Ratio, value, not less than / typical value: 16.2/21
Resolution, lines per mm: 64
Gate Type: Auto-Gated
Film Type: Thin-Filmed
.....

Ident Marking are a good group of guys to deal with as well!

So what's your point? It's the same tube that's in the D740 and D760 except without the focusing issues that D scopes have.

I run a Mars 6x with a Gen 3A tube (supposedly hand selected) on my Remington R25 (DPMS LR308) in .308 Win and the recoil is no issue at all and stays zeroed. It recoils less than my .308 bolt guns.

In hind sight I probably should have gone with the 4x. My rig weighs a ton in this configuration and is a PITA if you are spot stalking hogs for an evening. I have taken to carrying shooting sticks if I plan on hunting this way. Great out of the blind though.

You most likely will here negative comments about ATN products. Both of the others you listed are quality scopes. You will be addicted once you jump.

+1 to Tactical Hog Control and Ident. I also run a D-760 and have Never experienced any focusing issues with it. If at all possible I would demo as many scopes as you can and see which one suits your needs the best and if possible get the spec sheet on the tube that is in it because the higher the specs the better off you will be. Just my opinion but I would shy away from anything less than a S/N of 25. Oh and be warned Nightvision is ADDICTING!!

AMEN! ....High Quality Night Vision IS ADDICTING !!!!!




The tubes in our D-740's and D-760's may be the same MODEL as the ones in your Pulsar units but we opt for tubes with higher specs.

Here's a scan of the data sheet of one of our typical scopes.... 29.4 SNR, 64 lp, 0.99 halo, FOM = 1881.6

Thanks to all. I listened to some very good recommendations on here and will heed the advice. I look forward to becoming addicted. I love hog hunting and can only imagine it is magnified when you can see them at night. I can't wait!!! Thanks again, look for some pictures by the fall.

All you have to do is read this write up on the Truth of the D740/760 http://wolverinetechnologiesllc.com/Nigh...pe...-the-truth

forky,
i'm totally depressed now. guess i'll have to check my zero tonight!

on the bright side, i can blame equipment failure for all the hogs i've missed.

LOL. Yeah guess I'll have to ck mine too! We also need to tell Tactical Hog Control all their scopes are off too, bet the hogs would disagree!! West fork could you produce an actual spec sheet off your scopes or are they all boxed up and the best we get is a 21 S/N

Dang. This is some high-dollar equipment!

I am so dissapointed...I didn't think you ever missed

One of these days, I hope I can justify the purchase of some of these toys. Just don't get out hog hunting much since we don't have them on our place and the spot light works fine for varmint hunting...but one of these days

Djones doesn't miss. : )

NiteHog is also a great company to check out. Quality stuff.