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Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: tightlines24] #3126650 03/30/12 01:22 PM
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KillinSwede Offline
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The simple answer for me is hearing protection and preservation. They also reduce recoil which should aid in accuracy. If you have gotten by for 40 years without one I bet you will be OK moving forward without adding one to your gun.


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: tightlines24] #3126669 03/30/12 01:27 PM
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#1 - Less noise. They do not make a gun totally silent but there's just less noise. Imagine introducing a youngster to hunting. They won't have fear of that first shot because it's not going to be a loud bang. There's still noise but just not as loud. You also won't have to wear hearing protection in most cases. You can easily talk to each other without having to remove/put on hearing protection. This also allows for multiple shots without totally scaring game. This is not an issue with most hunts since we are there to shoot a single deer/moose/bear/chupacabra but it really is nice when doing pest control like hog hunting. They still hear the shot but they have no idea where it came from and which way to run. Typically they are confused and run in every direction, giving you enough time to make a few more shots on the ones that are dazed. I think we can all agree that fewer hogs would be a good thing....

#2 - Accuracy. They help to further stabilize the bullet and enhance accuracy in doing so.

#3 - Less muzzle flash. While this isn't important to everyone, it is to some. Imagine filming a hunt near dawn/dusk. The flash can totally kill your "money shot" when you are filming. I have had this done several times when filming from behind the shooter(when space didn't allow me to be anywhere else).

#4 - Reduced muzzle jump. A suppressor acts as a good muzzle break and slows the gasses coming from the barrel. I know many of you don't *ever* need a 2nd shot but in the case that you do, it allows you to get back on target quicker.

Will everyone need one? No. Will everyone want one? Nope. What harm does it do to further our gun ownership rights? None. It's the misinformed that are crying most about this new law.


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: dieterich] #3126742 03/30/12 02:02 PM
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tightlines24 Offline
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Like I said, I am not against this at all just curious how it would aid my hunting. Thanks for your input. I think I will probably pass on this but there will probably be a day coming when I shoot and miss and the dang deer hauls butt and I will be wondering "what if I had bought one of them darn things!"


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: tightlines24] #3126761 03/30/12 02:09 PM
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Here is what you have to do to own a Silencer.

1. You must find a silencer that you want for your gun.

2. You must BUY the silencer from a Class II or Class III Dealer. You pay for the silencer up front, the dealer then puts your silencer back in his safe (You are NOT allowed to take it home), he hands you two Form 4’s, Compliance Form.
a. You fill out the Form 4’s in Duplicate with your dealer
b. You MUST get a Chief Law Enforcement Officer Sign off OR Form a Trust
c. If you go Chief Law Enforcement Officer Sign off route
i. Get Two Sets of Fingerprints (FBI Style)
ii. Get Two 2” x 2” Pass Port Photo’s of yourself
iii. Get one of the following to Sign your Forms : Chief of Police (YOUR CITY), Sherriff (YOUR COUNTY), District Judges (YOUR COUNTY), Prosecutor (YOUR COUNTY), Any Federal Judge, State Police Chief, or any other “TOP” Law Enforcement officer that the BATF deems valid to sign your forms. (This really isn’t that hard).
d. If you go the Trust Route, You will need to MAKE SURE YOUR TRUST IS VALID. I suggest getting a lawyer to look it over, because if you use Quicken Willmaker and you mess it up in anyway, YOU CAN GO TO JAIL. The BATF will approve just about any Trust, however if you mess up a trust and they deem it invalid, they will NAIL YOU for having a unregistered weapon.
e. Once you get your Form 4’s complete, Compliance Form, (Finger prints, photos OR Trust Documents), add a $200 check to the BATF and send it to them.

3. Now you get the fun process of WAITING (Get ready to wait 6-9 MONTHS).
a. BATF will wait about 3-5 days before cashing your check
b. BATF will wait 2-6 WEEKS before putting your purchase into the system (To Pending)
c. BATF will wait 4-6 MONTHS (From Pending) to Approve the Form
d. BATF will take 1-4 WEEKS (From Approved) to send ONE of your Form 4’s with Stamp back to your DEALER.
e. At this POINT you can finally fill out the 4473 form and take your item home.

4. Make SEVERAL Copies of your Form 4 WITH Stamp, put the original in a SAFE PLACE. ALWAYS take a copy with the Class II or Class III item anywhere you take the item. If you take the item across state lines, YOU MUST notify the BATF before you DO. If you send the item back to the manufacturer for REPAIR, YOU MUST fill out the BATF Forms to ship it to them.

5. When you own a Class II or Class III item, follow all RULES. It’s a pain in the arse, but in the long run quite worth it.

**NOTE** UNTIL you get approved, your item will REMAIN with the Class II or Class III Dealer.



Last edited by Gemlin; 03/30/12 02:11 PM.
Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: tightlines24] #3126764 03/30/12 02:10 PM
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Glad to see this passed.

For those in the know, I have an S Corp and curious if that meets the ATF requirements to hold a Class 3 item or do I need to spend the additional expense creating a NFA Trust?


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: TXW] #3126774 03/30/12 02:12 PM
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Corporations can buy them.


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: tightlines24] #3126838 03/30/12 02:36 PM
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Marcstar Offline
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For deer hunting I think it has very little advantage really since in most cases you shoot one time and you are done. Unless you are a professional paid hunter that is clearing an overpopulated area.

For target practice, on the other hand, I see a huge advantage.



Originally Posted By: wal1809
Dear Lord please bullwhip me for saying this but I agree, Marcstar is in the lead. Please nobody use this as a quote!!!
Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: Marcstar] #3127231 03/30/12 05:37 PM
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Gremlin, thanks for posting hat.

I'll get one eventually, cause I want one. I just wish I could afford the one I want right now.


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: Chris42] #3127360 03/30/12 06:40 PM
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Do I have to buy one before I can submit my Form 4?


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: dee] #3127369 03/30/12 06:42 PM
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can someone explain whats the be deal with silencers?

dont they still scare the animals if you shoot? please tell me what im missing. im be serious as well. maybe im not thinking right now



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Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: Gemlin] #3127404 03/30/12 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Gemlin
Here is what you have to do to own a Silencer.

1. You must find a silencer that you want for your gun.

2. You must BUY the silencer from a Class II or Class III Dealer. You pay for the silencer up front, the dealer then puts your silencer back in his safe (You are NOT allowed to take it home), he hands you two Form 4’s, Compliance Form.
a. You fill out the Form 4’s in Duplicate with your dealer
b. You MUST get a Chief Law Enforcement Officer Sign off OR Form a Trust
c. If you go Chief Law Enforcement Officer Sign off route
i. Get Two Sets of Fingerprints (FBI Style)
ii. Get Two 2” x 2” Pass Port Photo’s of yourself
iii. Get one of the following to Sign your Forms : Chief of Police (YOUR CITY), Sherriff (YOUR COUNTY), District Judges (YOUR COUNTY), Prosecutor (YOUR COUNTY), Any Federal Judge, State Police Chief, or any other “TOP” Law Enforcement officer that the BATF deems valid to sign your forms. (This really isn’t that hard).
d. If you go the Trust Route, You will need to MAKE SURE YOUR TRUST IS VALID. I suggest getting a lawyer to look it over, because if you use Quicken Willmaker and you mess it up in anyway, YOU CAN GO TO JAIL. The BATF will approve just about any Trust, however if you mess up a trust and they deem it invalid, they will NAIL YOU for having a unregistered weapon.
e. Once you get your Form 4’s complete, Compliance Form, (Finger prints, photos OR Trust Documents), add a $200 check to the BATF and send it to them.

3. Now you get the fun process of WAITING (Get ready to wait 6-9 MONTHS).
a. BATF will wait about 3-5 days before cashing your check
b. BATF will wait 2-6 WEEKS before putting your purchase into the system (To Pending)
c. BATF will wait 4-6 MONTHS (From Pending) to Approve the Form
d. BATF will take 1-4 WEEKS (From Approved) to send ONE of your Form 4’s with Stamp back to your DEALER.
e. At this POINT you can finally fill out the 4473 form and take your item home.

4. Make SEVERAL Copies of your Form 4 WITH Stamp, put the original in a SAFE PLACE. ALWAYS take a copy with the Class II or Class III item anywhere you take the item. If you take the item across state lines, YOU MUST notify the BATF before you DO. If you send the item back to the manufacturer for REPAIR, YOU MUST fill out the BATF Forms to ship it to them.

5. When you own a Class II or Class III item, follow all RULES. It’s a pain in the arse, but in the long run quite worth it.

**NOTE** UNTIL you get approved, your item will REMAIN with the Class II or Class III Dealer.


Seriously... "quite worth it"??? I'm tired just reading all these 'rules' to see how it could possibly be 'worth it'? What am I missing?


Last edited by talkturkey; 03/30/12 06:54 PM.
Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: DSST_Construction] #3127439 03/30/12 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: DSST_Construction
can someone explain whats the be deal with silencers?

dont they still scare the animals if you shoot? please tell me what im missing. im be serious as well. maybe im not thinking right now


Here's a situation where it's good... you are in your stand and you have a huge mess of hogs that come in. You are sick of these bastages but don't want to take a shot at them b/c the second you do, your deer hunting is through for the day. If you were to throw a suppressed sub sonic round...or 10 at the hogs it would be very quiet and not scare off any deer at all. up


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: Greg] #3127500 03/30/12 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Greg
Originally Posted By: DSST_Construction
can someone explain whats the be deal with silencers?

dont they still scare the animals if you shoot? please tell me what im missing. im be serious as well. maybe im not thinking right now


Here's a situation where it's good... you are in your stand and you have a huge mess of hogs that come in. You are sick of these bastages but don't want to take a shot at them b/c the second you do, your deer hunting is through for the day. If you were to throw a suppressed sub sonic round...or 10 at the hogs it would be very quiet and not scare off any deer at all. up



Have you done this?
Deer I've shot seem to react more to the bullet impact on a deer next to them than to the report of the rifle- often many yards away.
Take a suppressed 22 and fire it into a pond or tank 100 yards away (safety first!). The noise the bullet makes hitting the water is much louder than you would think- and that's just a 22.
My desire to have a suppressed deer rifle is purely selfish. I don't want to wear plugs or muffs when deer hunting. I have enough damage from dove hunts back in the "good old days". And before you say "one shot won't bother you" you're wrong. I shot at a running skunk twice with my pistol several weeks back and my ears rang more than usual for days.



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Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: TX_LT230FH] #3127527 03/30/12 07:30 PM
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tightlines24 Offline
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Greg. Suppresors will make no difference to me but who is the kid in the video clip? That fish just keeps chasing him down. That is some good stuff!


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: rifleman] #3128833 03/31/12 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
Holds folks more accountable and forces them to take kids during any open youth seasons instead of hunting for themselves.



This makes it sound like you have some folks on the lease you don't trust. The group of guys I hunt with now, a suppressor wouldn't be an issue. But we have known guys before that I didnt trust.
I'm not going to buy one myself, but I'm glad it passed. Any ground we can gain is a positive.
I dont understand the kids/suppressor angle though. If the guy is prone to taking deer himself, and not letting his kids shoot, I just dont see how the amount of noise created by his rifle affects that. Maybe I just am not reading this in light in which you wrote it.


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: DeeCee] #3128850 03/31/12 02:56 PM
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Those that are against this are of the typical Fudd mentality, and have zero interest in furthering the shooting and hunting sports for the future. Its either sour grapes that they can't afford a can, are lease "managers" that get off on control, or have absolutely no idea what a can does.

There are only positives to this ruling, no negatives. Those that think it will increase poaching, but aren't against hunting with a bow, fail to think rationally. Which is quieter? Which is easier to get?

Come on Fudds, get over yourselves, and join the rest of us in quiet celebration. This is a great development...especially for those of us that hunt with our kids.


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: Ackley_improved] #3129056 03/31/12 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: jpipes
Those that are against this are of the typical Fudd mentality, and have zero interest in furthering the shooting and hunting sports for the future. Its either sour grapes that they can't afford a can, are lease "managers" that get off on control, or have absolutely no idea what a can does.

There are only positives to this ruling, no negatives. Those that think it will increase poaching, but aren't against hunting with a bow, fail to think rationally. Which is quieter? Which is easier to get?

Come on Fudds, get over yourselves, and join the rest of us in quiet celebration. This is a great development...especially for those of us that hunt with our kids.



Best post in this thread so far. up flag


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: DocHorton] #3129068 03/31/12 04:54 PM
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I agree with DocHorton's post above. There is only good coming out of this rule change.


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: KillinSwede] #3129203 03/31/12 06:29 PM
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It makes no difference to me one way or the other!!!



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Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: Seadog] #3129509 03/31/12 10:50 PM
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Loosen your panties up and get a grip, its not about the $ or control, its just a difference of opinion and thats OK. So far as the analogy about the bow, apples and oranges. A good compound bow with an decent shooter is accurate to what around 40 yards, obviously an accomplished shooter would get a little farther out, so there is quite a disparity on how far out you can harvest game. My best harvest shot with my 7mag was 323 yards, had I missed and had a suppresor, I bet I would been able to take a few more shots without spooking the deer.

Knowing that I can probably take multiple shots at a target instead of maybe only one, to me (opinion) takes away from a big part of the excitement of the thrill of the Hunt!

I bought 3 compound bows about 2 months ago for my 14 year old son, 12 year old daughter and for myself so I can practice what I preach! I also believe in technology that further develops the sport, I just think suppresors make it less sporting and therefore less of a hunt and I certainly enjoy Hunting, not killing.

Question, how much noise is there using a suppresor,I would guess it would vary from caliber size? Can you give an example. The cable programs I have watched using them do not make very much noise. (modern weapons and such)

Its fun getting some of y'all going, nothing personal!



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Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: Stub] #3129542 03/31/12 11:13 PM
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It's hard to put into words what it sounds like. Take out the depth of the initial boom and think of what a 22-250 airmailed would sound like, with the sound barrier crack and whistling (might be a loud thump if accurate)


If folks are okay with a $200 tax for deer hunting purposes, with approval and praise, what items will get legislated to be taxed next? I'm very cynical when it comes to politics b/c it's usually give & take, but NRA & TPW just streamlined the Feds some money and folks can't wait to pay them; will actually be waiting in line to pay them for an opportunity to hunt differently.


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: rifleman] #3129567 03/31/12 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman

If folks are okay with a $200 tax for deer hunting purposes, with approval and praise, what items will get legislated to be taxed next? I'm very cynical when it comes to politics b/c it's usually give & take, but NRA & TPW just streamlined the Feds some money and folks can't wait to pay them; will actually be waiting in line to pay them for an opportunity to hunt differently.


Please explain where anyone would have to pay $200 for deer hunting purposes?Also, how in the world does anyone "hunt differently" with a can vs without? Were you this cynical when they allowed scoped rifles for deer hunting too? What about the introduction of more efficient and modern hunting bullets, is this a bad thing too? What about hunting with AR patterned rifles?

Seems the naysayers are more scared about change than actual critical evaluation....

Don't worry folks, you'll still be able to shoot deer with grandpa's old 30/30.


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: Ackley_improved] #3129740 04/01/12 01:47 AM
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That's the tax associated with purchasing one. Outside the norm = different; how would it have been the norm If it had not been legal? There may come a time when lead containing bullets are banned since that was brought up(take waterfowl for instance....steel is now the norm, not many complaints). Change isn't always a good thing, the more complex it [hunting] becomes the more you can be nickel and dimed with the Feds thinking they can get further into your pockets. Not long ago private firearm ownership was before the SC and it amuses me to know that someone has the audacity to believe change is a good thing for something so simplistic. Keep letting the Feds get deeper involved and showing them ppl are willing to fork over money (and be happy) and those taxes being paying will get attached to other things.


Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: DeeCee] #3129754 04/01/12 01:59 AM
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look 7 or 8 posts under that one. I trust those guys with a lot, but never can tell what happens with a really tight knit group of folks; they know no one will turn them in for anything done wrong, so GWs get to watch the place close. They only have to pay for corn, protein and seed/fertilizer and the only reason they're hunting there and we're not just eating the costs is bc it's close enough they can take their kids/grandkids after school and on weekends and get them to town to play ball. Would be perfectly fine with no adults pulling the trigger on the place which is why I only go out there to sponsor a fish fry/grill steaks or breakfast for everyone.


Originally Posted By: DeeCee
Originally Posted By: rifleman
Holds folks more accountable and forces them to take kids during any open youth seasons instead of hunting for themselves.



This makes it sound like you have some folks on the lease you don't trust. The group of guys I hunt with now, a suppressor wouldn't be an issue. But we have known guys before that I didnt trust.
I'm not going to buy one myself, but I'm glad it passed. Any ground we can gain is a positive.
I dont understand the kids/suppressor angle though. If the guy is prone to taking deer himself, and not letting his kids shoot, I just dont see how the amount of noise created by his rifle affects that. Maybe I just am not reading this in light in which you wrote it.



Re: LEGAL NOW [Re: rifleman] #3129762 04/01/12 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: rifleman
That's the tax associated with purchasing one. Outside the norm = different; how would it have been the norm If it had not been legal? There may come a time when lead containing bullets are banned since that was brought up(take waterfowl for instance....steel is now the norm, not many complaints). Change isn't always a good thing, the more complex it [hunting] becomes the more you can be nickel and dimed with the Feds thinking they can get further into your pockets. Not long ago private firearm ownership was before the SC and it amuses me to know that someone has the audacity to believe change is a good thing for something so simplistic. Keep letting the Feds get deeper involved and showing them ppl are willing to fork over money (and be happy) and those taxes being paying will get attached to other things.


You said that " folks are ok paying $200 for deer hunting purposes". The $200 tax has nothing to do with hunting. You can still hunt deer without the $200 stamp. You can hunt deer with a silencer without paying a $200 stamp. If you want a silencer, however, there is no way to get around paying the tax stamp...regardless of your intended use. I own one, and have another pending, and most definitely intend to hunt with it.

You also said "outside the norm=different". If you go by this logic, you need to define the "norm". "norm" used to be hunting with rocks, bows, and flint spears.. It sounds as if you are afraid of progress in the shooting and hunting sports.

The "Fed" has nothing to do with this decision by the TPWD.


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