Got an amazon gift card and am going to pickup a shooting rest. This will be my first rest. I plan on using it to help me sight in my rifles. I tend to waste ammo and second guess myself when sighting in by hand with sand bags, so I'd rather strap them down in a vice, let 4 fly, and site the grouping. All the rifles I'd be using this for now are calibers 270 to 30-06.

Two I'm looking at are:

Vanguard
http://www.amazon.com/Vanguard-Steady-Ai...632&sr=1-19

and Stoney Point:
http://www.amazon.com/Stoney-Point-Shoot...632&sr=1-20

Anyone have either of these? Any opinions, are they essentially the same in quality and usability?

Thanks all for your assistance.

When you ancor the rifle down in a sled or mechanical rest, it will change your point of impact to when you shoot it. It will be close, but not 100% dead on. The rifle recoils different on the sled than it does on your shoulder, and will change the pint of impact.

Mount a bipod or build up a sand bag rest under the forearm, and put a sand bag under the rear of the butt and shoot it from a bench or prone. This will get you the best sight in for your rifle. If you are second guessing yourself, work on some dry firing before you shoot live rounds. And practice more!

^^this^^

One day Chad was at my range doing load development for a customer, myself and two other friends were gathering field dope on steel out to a thousand. All four of us were shooting prone. Is that enough evidence?

I really hate to say this but frankly if your not shooting well enough to have any confidence off of bags then for the life of me I can't see where sighting your rifle in from a vise is going to help you.
You are still going to miss.

It reminds me of a hunting trip I made with my father and his banker on a ranch of ours.
This banker had just purchased a new 7mag and it was obvious that he was intimidated by it just from how he talked. So low and behold we ride right up on a nice wide racked 4 point mule deer buck across a small canyon about 150 yards or a bit less away.
"oh and in case anyone does not know a 4 point muley is what you would call an 8 point whitetail but you don't count the eyegaurds on a muley"
So mr banker steps off his horse and gets down on a knee and proceeds to blast one underthe bucks belly. Now usually that would have been all for that deal and the last we would have seen is his rear going over the next ridge , but for some reason when that bullet hit the hill side beside him he jumped and looked at where the bullet hit instead of taking off.
Mr banker proceeded to empty his rifle at the buck, in front of him behind him over him..
Reloads and proceeds to fling a couple more getting more flustered with each shot.
I could not believe that buck did not run but he just kept juming and staring at where those bullets where knocking up rocks on that hillside behind him.
Finally mr banker in a panic asks my father " Bill what am I doing wrong? my father says well your jerking the trigger.. then in a pathetic voice mr banker asks well what should I do?
I will never forget my Father just sat there on his horse a second looking at him and said well your best bet would probably be to aim somewhere else..

You are kind of in the same boat it seems.
I would suggest buying a rifle in a caliber that you are comfortable with, get a trigger job of about two very crisp pounds, have a capable freind sight it in dead nuts,, and spend that money you would spend on a sled/vice on ammo and get to practicing.
First from sand bags, then from field positions, with lots and lots, and lots of dry fire practice thrown in.
Give that program some time and things will start falling down and playing dead for ya.

get you one of these i played with one at the DSC at it was by far the most steady rest i have ever used. Most hunting will be done standing up or stalking.

http://www.triclawps.com/

i have played around with a few of them and I have a Caldwell Lead Sled. I get better groups and faster target acquisition with my swivel stud mounted bipod. I dont even feel like I am shooting when I use my lead sled.

Thanks all. And I guess I should be more clear on my hesitation, its not shooting or trigger pull, its scope adjustment. I second guess myself all the time on how many clicks and which direction move. Bolting it down will help me eyeball after every click series, to make sure I didn't doof up the count or direction when I adjust. Sorry for the confusion.

Have targets that have 1" square grids on it. When you shoot a few rounds, measure how many inches you need to center up the group to your point of aim. If your scope adjusts in 1/4" clicks, and you need to move bullet impact 3 inches right (bullet is hitting left), then 3" / .25= 12 clicks to the right. Same thing for up and down. Always adjust in the direction you want the bullet to move. If it's hitting left, dial the scope adjustment right.

only thing to add to the above is that those click adjustments are figured for 100 yards.
So one click will move your reticle 1/4 to 1/2 depending on the scope and it should be printed somewhere on it,, at one hundred yards.
So if you are shooting 200 yards approx, and its hitting 4 inches to the left then figure that you need to adjust your scope for how far it would be off at 100 yards instead, so approx 2 inches instead of 4..
There, clear as mud?

Good luck and if we live anywhere near to each other I would be glad to give ya a hand with it.

Good point. So .25" clicks will move (1 click):

1/4" at 100
1/2" at 200
3/4" at 300
1" at 400
etc, etc.

This is also known as Inch Per Hundred Yards (IPHY). If it's in 1/4 MOA (which some are), it's almost the same amount, so just use these figures to keep it simple. But 1 MOA = 1.047" at 100 yards, so 1 click is .26" at 100 yards, to be exact.

I have always shot off of sandbags front and rear and had good luck. For christmas I got a nice bipod and will start using it at the range and a bag in the rear, I tink it will help me some.

I understand the led slead thing, but I think it should be used for testing ammo, like load development, taking yourself out of the equation to find the most precise round. However the behind the gun time during load development has greatly helped my shooting ability. I saw myself get alot better when I started reloading, then I slacked off for about 3-4 years and it got worse and as I am doing it more and shooting more again I can easily see my ability improving again.

matt

Because 99.9999% of the recoil occurs AFTER the bullet leaves the barrel, point of impact change is not related to change in recoil energy distribution.

People shoot differently from a sled than from the shoulder. It's easier to focus on trigger and breathing when you don't have to manage the weight and holding on target. It shootes differently because the shooter shoots it differently, not because of recoil difference (of which there is none).

Mind showing me the mathmatical formula where 99.9999% came from. I like physics, Statics and dymanics, not really but they can be interesting at times.

Almost all of the recoil comes from turning the rifle into a rocket. That happens when the bullet leaves the barrel and the gasses exiting behind it force the rifle into an equal but opposite motion. The part of recoil that isn't accounted for by that comes from things like the firing pin launching forward and rebounding. The force from those things is negligible.

If you google "physics of rifle recoil" you will find many articles on the topic.

Almost but not all. I can also find in the references where the Angular acceleration is not taken into account in many of your recoil calculations and is entirely left out of most recoil calculations. This effects felt recoil a little but can affect point of impact.

Try your theory out some time shoot from sandbags or with a bipod and rear bag, shoot with no downard pressure on on the forearm for a group, and try it without pressure applied the bullets will impact at different places.

Try it in something like a leadsled, rifle strapped down so the angular component is removed. It will change your point of impact.

None of this takes into account a whole can of worms in accuracy barrel harmonics. There are some good videos on youtube showing that in slow motion.

Nain thing with accuracy wether from clamp in rest, bipod, sandbag whatever is consistancy. Point of impact can be affected by many factors but without consistancy shot to shot, guessing about the whys of accutacy is a mute point,

Moot?

Anyway, point of aim changes are not from changes in recoil because all significant recoil occurs after the bullet left the barrel.

On that I guess we should agree to disagree,

I just know from personal experience I would never trust a rifle sighted with a rest such as a leadsled for hunting without rechecking the zero from hunting shooting positions. Those type rests are good for load developement though by taking more of the human element out of the testing.