an education doesnt make you intelligent FWIW....

Sometimes, limiting their abilities doesn't help much.

Never said it did.

Well sir I wasn't trying to be controversial. Fifteen or Twenty years ago I read where leasing was what needed to happen to improve the quality of deer hunting in Texas. Then we see high fencing and the restriction of the free range of Texas resources oh and there is 8 to 10K entry fee.

Now we have AR's which is a further restriction. Personally I have my standards and don't see the need to kill a buck that is smaller than what I have killed before. I went two years without killing a buck. But a small deer can be a trophy to a kid and this is where we are all missing the boat.

It shouldn't be about money or trophys but the rather the experience. I have hunted big woods before the Texas feeder game and I didn't need AR's to see bucks fight.

Best regards to all.

JT

My neighbors were not shooting their limit of deer and then using the meat to feed their families. They were meat hunters that would pass on the 15 does at the feeder to shoot the only little buck that walked out - pretty common theme around the state. When the next season would roll around they would realize they still had a freezer full of venison and give away what they could and dispose of the rest.

Old school mentionality is you must shoot a buck to feel like you had a successful hunt.

I've seen the same thing as well. Same people were buying licenses for their wives and kids and filling their buck tags as well. Most of them were 100"-110" 8 points.

Ok after reading some of my post, let me clear some things up. I am by no means a trophy hunter. I just won't shot a buck unless he is better then the last one I shot. I will shoot my two does to get my meat but I hunt a county that allows me to hunt doe all season. They created AR to let the age of the bucks come up. Not only that but before AR people were shooting bucks and that's it. You have to have bucks to breed the does. All the places I have ever hunted or had the privilege of hearing about due to where I use to work, had more then enough does to take several a year. I'm not a fan of AR because it doesn't allow the land owner to manage their land like they want to. Again, a blanket solution is not the way to go. What works in west Texas won't work in east or south Texas.

In Tyler County, a 13" buck is not only a trophy but a "freak"!!!

the one killed on the road in woodville was a nice 12 (i think) that was about 12" wide. it was a 135 class deer.

I got 27 year old son to buy into our lease and start hunting 3 years ago. He has yet to shoot a deer. He saw a nice tall 10 inch wide 6 last weekend that would have been a nice trophy for his first buck. Sorry no can do, AR's. I pretty sure he is giving up hunting after this season because of AR's. That is just sad.

Just when you are trying to promote our sport, AR's make it harder for people to get an animal!!! Reduce the limit and you save the same amount of young bucks!!! What they are trying to do is growing trophy bucks statewide and East Texas deer genetics isn't there for that!!! All that I've read from the pro-AR people is how much bigger, scorewise their bucks are since AR's implemented!!! Great for you guys - terrific!!! We just DON'T HAVE the GENETICS for that and I'm happy to just be killing a 110" buck and no I don't kill young bucks/does but I would like to kill some of these 12" mature deer I see!!!

But I guess that's one less hunter the trophy hunters will have competing with them for those BC horns. They should like that.

Ditto!

Yup and what if that young brand new to hunting hunter just knew a buck's antlers in his sights were 13" apart, shot, was on cloud 9, heart pumping, only to walk up to the buck and find out he was an inch or two away from being legal. The thoughts that are running through his head are probably bad enough to give him an anxiety attack and defiantly make want to never shoot another deer. Or in my case, a guy's old dad who brought him up deer hunting in the woods of East Texas (not trophy hunting) but just deer hunting legally, has now quit deer hunting because he was too scared himself to shoot a possible illegal buck, because for decades, he never had to worry about antler width. So now, your hunting hero is retired from a sport he loved. That my friends, sucks beyond all sucking.

I agree Curly!!!

That does suck.

My deer shot under 13" in the county all weighed in the 180s (one being shot in late Feb) now move up around Chester and it's like you're hunting a different species of deer.

We are on MLD at our lease but we as members (20-21 yearly) have agreed (been going on for many, many years now) for our lease rules not to take anything less than 15" or 3.5 years. Last year we started setting aside about 1/3 of our buck tags for culls. They consider a cull a 3.5 yr buck less than 8 pt and less than 15". However sometimes there are exceptins. This year there is a spike with 8" tine on left and two 1" around it with three 1/2"-1" little spikes sticking up where the other long tine should be.He's 2.5 but we got permission to shoot him so now he's on our hit list. So far we have nice deer - I killed a 12pt. 17 1/2 spread last year. 3.5 yr old. My biggest ever!
Wish they could do somethin like that with the AR but then you have to rely on a lot of foks to be able to judge age and some don't (IMO) hunt enough to know that.

What is wrong with shooting a doe?

I haven't shot a deer since '08. Why? Because I haven't seen one that was old enough. Still not quitting hunting. Hunting to me is about more than just killing the first buck I see.

another thing, I started hunting when I was 10 or so and aside from an accidental spike, I didn't shoot a buck until I was 16 or 17.

Some people are just impatient and cry when they dont get there way....they call thereself meat hunters to give them a reason to pull the trigger... im done with this thread

The problem I have with AR's is that a small land owner CANNOT get rid of the culls. We have 33 acres surrounded by cow pasture. We have ALL of the bedding cover for about a mile around. We also have a deep pond and plenty of acorn trees. The State of Texas has decided that SMALL landowners don't have the right to manage their land.
Just goes to show that BIG $$ gets what THEY WANT.
PS. I am a member of a 3300 acre MLDP type lease in another county. A 5yr old 196lb 8 point was killed there last year with a 12 1/4" spread.

A significant majority of east Texas is owned by small landowners, and therein lies a huge problem. 33 acres is hardly enough to manage ONE DEER, much less a deer herd. I would say, at a minimum, you need 10 times your acreage to attempt any feeble management program. And unless you can amass several adjoining landowners to form a large co-op, like your 3300 acres, you're just spitting in the wind.

My 166 acres in Anderson County doesn't qualify for even one doe permit, yet it's larger than any contiguous property. AND....three neighbors have deer stands and feeders less than 30 yards from my fenceline (2 on the east--one stand touches the fence--and one on the north fence).

Thus, my hunting m.o. is to enjoy wildlife viewing at home in EasTex, and I go out west to hunt on 6400 acres on a 42,000 acre ranch.

Adam_p good for you that you chose to hunt 7 years without shooting a buck. Does that make you a smart hunter???? Sounds like to me you need to just watch deer on tv because you arnt interested in shooting one. People watch the idiots on hunting shows and try and learn from them how to hunt. Half of their shows are fake re filmed bs that they get people to believe that is the way their hunt went down. If you prefer to not shoot a buck great for you just saves more for those of us that like to hunt and shoot and don't give a crap about it being a "trophy". Get over you modern day I'm a trophy hunter crap. If somebody wants to shoot a 8in wide 4 point then it shouldn't be anybody else's business. Navasotbreed from your pics. you post I would say you like to pull the trigger just as much as the next guy.