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Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: Dude Briggs] #2740161 11/10/11 06:51 PM
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Eagle Eye Impson Offline
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We let ours hang as long as they are skinned, the meat is cooling off well, and we keep the flies off of them. Our rule of thumb is if it gets above 60 then we put them on ice. We have never had any problems with our meet spoiling or tasting bad. Venison is a low fat meat and what spoils fastest is fatty meats, like pork. my $0.02.


Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: Stump_jumper] #2740202 11/10/11 07:07 PM
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Now, what about that deer that gets arrowed on the open weekend of bow season when its 90 degrees outside, and lays for three or four hours while you try to find it?

Is it completely ruined?


Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: Sooner N TX] #2740355 11/10/11 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sooner N TX
Now, what about that deer that gets arrowed on the open weekend of bow season when its 90 degrees outside, and lays for three or four hours while you try to find it?
Is it completely ruined?


Probably not.

Time and Temperature are the factors; the bacteria that form the toxins (naturally present everywhere) can reproduce about every 20 minutes when (meat protein) temp is above 40 degrees. More-so at higher temps, but below 135. Keeping meat at 40degrees or lower stops the process.

In your case, first few hours would be (3*60)/20 = ~ 9 rep. cycles, at most. Toxin production is due to (microbiologic) crowding. 9 cycles = very little crowding; maybe some very small amount of toxins would be present but likely very very dilute, and wouldn't cause much problem for anyone.

OP had his at 65-70 for 48 hours, much of that in the blowing wind (C.B. spores are naturally present in the environment & soil,and are easily transported on windy days; normally harmless, unless give a medium (meat protein) and favorable conditions (medium warmer than 40degrees), & TIME!
OP's deer was way above 40 degrees, and a very long (micro-biologically speaking) time.
(48*60)/20 = 144 rep cycles.
A single clostridium botulinum spore present could have reproduced to
2 to the 144th power = 223 with 40 zeros after it ( i dont even know what that number is, but I sure wouldn't eat it).



Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: oldoak2000] #2740367 11/10/11 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: oldoak2000
Originally Posted By: Sooner N TX
Now, what about that deer that gets arrowed on the open weekend of bow season when its 90 degrees outside, and lays for three or four hours while you try to find it?
Is it completely ruined?


Probably not.

Time and Temperature are the factors; the bacteria that form the toxins (naturally present everywhere) can reproduce about every 20 minutes when (meat protein) temp is above 40 degrees. More-so at higher temps, but below 135. Keeping meat at 40degrees or lower stops the process.

In your case, first few hours would be (3*60)/20 = ~ 9 rep. cycles, at most. Toxin production is due to (microbiologic) crowding. 9 cycles = very little crowding; maybe some very small amount of toxins would be present but likely very very dilute, and wouldn't cause much problem for anyone.

OP had his at 65-70 for 48 hours, much of that in the blowing wind (C.B. spores are naturally present in the environment & soil,and are easily transported on windy days; normally harmless, unless give a medium (meat protein) and favorable conditions (medium warmer than 40degrees), & TIME!
OP's deer was way above 40 degrees, and a very long (micro-biologically speaking) time.
(48*60)/20 = 144 rep cycles.
A single clostridium botulinum spore present could have reproduced to
2 to the 144th power = 223 with 40 zeros after it ( i dont even know what that number is, but I sure wouldn't eat it).


LMAO! What did you just say lol. Just giving you a hard time lol!


Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: skinnerback] #2740380 11/10/11 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: skinnerback
LMAO! What did you just say lol. Just giving you a hard time lol!


Yeah, I gotta stop watching CSI . . . nuts


Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: oldoak2000] #2740384 11/10/11 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: oldoak2000
Originally Posted By: skinnerback
LMAO! What did you just say lol. Just giving you a hard time lol!


Yeah, I gotta stop watching CSI . . . nuts


HA ha ha, I needed a good laugh...thanks.


Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: skinnerback] #2740395 11/10/11 08:13 PM
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Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: BuckRage] #2740512 11/10/11 08:57 PM
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If it's good enough for buzzards then it's good enough for me!



Mike
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Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: LandPirate] #2740536 11/10/11 09:09 PM
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LOL, I once ate a pig that had gang green. I mean the entire front section was a stinky green mush, did I mention it really smelled bad lol. I cut that thing in half & kept the hams & half of the backstraps. The rest of the meat still looked good & smelled good, my attitude back then was, "it ain't nothin' 350 degrees won't cure", so I cooked & ate every bit of it that I saved & enjoyed it. Now, understand that I was in my early 20's & thought nothing could hurt me lol. I would NEVER take that chance now, especially if feeding it to my family lol. I really really wanted that meat lol! Hell I even ate road kill one time lol.


Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: skinnerback] #2741050 11/11/11 12:11 AM
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That's nasty!

A buddy of mine is a local farmer. To help him out I'd hit his cotton and corn fields late at night and shoot pigs. These fields were adjacent to county roads and weren't fenced. One night I shot a huge boar hog that was too big for me to haul out of the field. I called my buddy and told me not to worry about it, that he'd run over there with a tractor, load it and haul it away.

That hog laid out there all night in 80+ degree temps. I drove by the next morning about 10Am and buzzards were on him already. About noon I went back by and the pig was gone. I called my buddy and he said that he hadn't made it there yet. I told him not to worry about because somebody had already gone in the field and picked it up.

I can only assume that they took it to eat. grill Then barf flush



Mike
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Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: LandPirate] #2741122 11/11/11 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: LandPirate
That's nasty!

A buddy of mine is a local farmer. To help him out I'd hit his cotton and corn fields late at night and shoot pigs. These fields were adjacent to county roads and weren't fenced. One night I shot a huge boar hog that was too big for me to haul out of the field. I called my buddy and told me not to worry about it, that he'd run over there with a tractor, load it and haul it away.


LMAO! Man I've got to figure out how to get these little cartoon icons you guys use, apparently I'm not smart enough to figure it out....that's funny though. Must have been a whole fam damily that drug that thing out of there, crazy. Since we're story telling......before I moved outside of the city limits of Rockport I actually had someone come & steal all the meat out of my big ice chest I had sitting in my driveway by my garage door. I had trapped a couple of nice hogs & had them packed well in ice, (big pieces of meat). There was this alchoholic/dopehead bum on a bicycle that used to always stop at my house & ask me for fish or beer whenever he saw me unloading my boat. I quit giving to bums years ago so I always told him no & to get on down the road & leave me alone. I'm pretty shure it was him that stole my meat, no animal could have dug through that much ice & pulled out those big pieces of meat IMO. Not to mention you had to actually get into the ice chest first & dig through several inches of ice. Anyway, when I got up the next morning to see if I needed more ice all of my meat was gone. I was PI$$#@ off & actually called the police. They showed up & I explained & then couldn't help but laugh about the whole thing, must have sounded pretty funny to the police officer. I'll be the first person to help someone that's actually trying to help themselves first but dadgum....steal my meat! He didn't even know what kind of meat it was lol! Well hopefully it fed some hungry mouths, but IMO a thief is a thief....doesn't matter what they're stealing. Stole my meat lol....

That hog laid out there all night in 80+ degree temps. I drove by the next morning about 10Am and buzzards were on him already. About noon I went back by and the pig was gone. I called my buddy and he said that he hadn't made it there yet. I told him not to worry about because somebody had already gone in the field and picked it up.

I can only assume that they took it to eat. grill Then barf flush



Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: skinnerback] #2741209 11/11/11 01:05 AM
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I don't doubt that. It seems that the rats run to until the land ends and they just pile up along the coast.

I love the coast and plan to retire there, but there are some serious sand crabs living down that way.



Mike
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Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: LandPirate] #2741225 11/11/11 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: LandPirate
I don't doubt that. It seems that the rats run to until the land ends and they just pile up along the coast.

I love the coast and plan to retire there, but there are some serious sand crabs living down that way.


Yeppers, unfortunately. I could never permanantly leave the coast, salt is in my blood. It'd be nice though if we could feed the crabs with some culls we pulled from the herd smile


Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: skinnerback] #2741229 11/11/11 01:13 AM
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Or maybe round 'em up, offer 'em a free offshore trip then skuttle the boat with all of 'em onboard.



Mike
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Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: LandPirate] #2741237 11/11/11 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: LandPirate
Or maybe round 'em up, offer 'em a free offshore trip then skuttle the boat with all of 'em onboard.


LOL, that'd be a good start. I don't have issues anymore thankfully since I've moved out of town. Plus I have a miniature wiener dog that's trained to attack lol!


Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: LandPirate] #2741318 11/11/11 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: LandPirate
Don't hang 'em unless it's under 45 degrees. If it's over 45 then you need to quarter the deer and put it on ice. I age my deer on ice for 3-5 days. Drain the water and add ice daily. This will bleed out the meat. No gamey flavor and a nice pink color.

I'm not sure I'd want to eat a deer that hung for several days in 60-70 degree temps. That's too warm.

I hate to break the news to you, LanPirate but aging deer meat on ice is a nice oxymoron. Once you put the meat on ice, ALL aging process stops. Period.
Besides 3 1/2 -4 1/2 year deer does not any aging.
Back to the original question.
If the guy had let the deer hang in those temperatures he ruined the meat. No meat could be hang outside above 50F for over a day and not get attacked by bacteria. Especially in the skin. Furthermore, the hide is an ideal insulator and will prevent from quick cooling. And I won't even go into the benefits of cutting out the settled blood and other pockets of trouble that we see in the deer meat that was chased while wounded and will promote spoilage quick. 2cents


Last edited by Old whisker; 11/11/11 01:44 AM.

Experience is what you get, when you did not get what you wanted.......
Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: skinnerback] #2741412 11/11/11 02:14 AM
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Now pig is a different story.
You know what they say about javelina. If it ain't moving, it is not ready to eat yet! food



Experience is what you get, when you did not get what you wanted.......
Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: oldoak2000] #2741463 11/11/11 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: oldoak2000
Well, this is actually a pretty serious matter.

Since you won't believe me, I contacted the USDA; read for yourself:

Ask Karen: Thank you for contacting AskKaren. How may I help you today?
Gary: UnRefrigerated venison - stored 48 hrs at 65 to 70 degrees F (quartered deer - raw & unprocessed) - safe to prepare (cook) and eat?
Ask Karen: Unfortunately, no it is not safe. We say to refrigerate game immediately at 40 degrees or below. If it was left for 2 days in a warm temp it is not safe.

Ask Karen: It has to be stored at 40 degrees or below.
Gary: Well, I kinda know that; can you give me something to tell buddy who thinks otherwise?
Ask Karen: Yes, give me a minute let me find our fact sheet on wild game.
Ask Karen: We have this answer in our Ask Karen feature and now I will get the fact sheet for you.
Answer Link: http://askkaren.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/149
Ask Karen: Fact sheet on wild game, there is a section in the fact sheet about how to handle game safely: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Farm_Raised_Game/index.asp#11
Ask Karen: The fact sheet even has a section on what bacteria can be found in wild game, maybe that will help convince him it's not safe.

Gary: How sick (potentially) can he get from eating it?
Ask Karen: Very sick, foodborne illness can potentially kill.
Ask Karen: Salmonella and E.coli can be found in wild game.

Gary: Will cooking resolve that?
Ask Karen: No, some bacteria produce a toxin, cooking does not destroy toxins.

Gary: Ok, thanks.
Ask Karen: Your welcome. I hope that helps. Bye.

..Throw it out..not worth it..I work in the food industry and you are asking for trouble...Game meat or no game meat..get a cheap cut of meat and leave it out the same temps as the deer...then smell it and see if you would eat it..."aging" meat is done at very controlled temps with the humidity being added as well...


Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: skinnerback] #2743210 11/11/11 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: skinnerback
LOL, I once ate a pig that had gang green. I mean the entire front section was a stinky green mush, did I mention it really smelled bad lol. I cut that thing in half & kept the hams & half of the backstraps. The rest of the meat still looked good & smelled good, my attitude back then was, "it ain't nothin' 350 degrees won't cure", so I cooked & ate every bit of it that I saved & enjoyed it. Now, understand that I was in my early 20's & thought nothing could hurt me lol. I would NEVER take that chance now, especially if feeding it to my family lol. I really really wanted that meat lol! Hell I even ate road kill one time lol.


I heard a story on the radio the other day about a guy is living entirely off of roadkill. He can have it all.



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Re: Hanging/aging deer meat question [Re: bjankowski] #2743326 11/11/11 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: bjankowski
A quick an easy way is to buy a cheap refrigerator and put in some racks and you can quarter up your venison and hang it for a week or so. Put in a pan on the bottom that will catch the blood and drain daily. I travel a lot and using the ice chest method with draining it daily is not an option for me. And if I don’t get home in a couple of weeks the meat will keep.
There are tons of cheap refrigerators on Craig’s list daily.


This is the method I have always been told to use(here in Texas) you never know what the weather the next day is going to be like no matter what month it is!! If you lived up north it wouldn't be a problem!! I have also used the cooler method but that is a a lot more work than a fridge.



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