|
Forums46
Topics538,332
Posts9,735,885
Members87,082
| |
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
|
|
|
 Deer Lease rules
#252826
11/13/07 07:33 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6
jiml
OP
Green Horn
|
|
OP
Green Horn
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6 |
I recently aquired a new lease in Mason County Texas. The ranch owner has recently been told he has to have a back operation. He ( the ranch owner ) has now informed us that the gates will be locked during his operation and NO HUNTING will be allowed. Im truly sorry he has to have a back operation but the fact remains WE HAVE PAID OUR MONEY and he's got it! Listen, it's pre-rut and its time to hit the fields and he's saying we cany hunt while he is in the hospital. This is Not right! Again, Im sorry for his health issues but we paid for a lease and we should be able to hunt.I was told that since he has our money and if the gates are locked, cut'em! ( We paid ) Im not wanting to go to jail for cutting a mans lock but we have paid and should be able to hunt! Think I should take bolt cutters or go fishing! Jim L.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: jiml]
#252827
11/13/07 07:37 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
|
|
duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601 |
I'd try talking to him again, maybe finding a friend of his or a son or nephew or someone that could "supervise". Then I'd want money back. I wouldn't cut the lock. I'd involve game warden too after trying to talk it out. After that, a lawyer.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: jiml]
#252828
11/13/07 07:39 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,881
Cool_Hand
THF Trophy Hunter
|
|
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,881 |
Welcome Jim. You've got to get someone smarter than me which won't be hard to do but I don't believe I've ever heard of that situation before! I would like to hear the results or if anyone knows I'm also all ears!! I'm a land owner and don't think I would ever do that to my leasees.  I think Sig has some good advice!! 
Last edited by Cool_Hand; 11/13/07 07:40 PM.
 Benny Promise Ranch
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: sig226fan (Rguns.com)]
#252829
11/13/07 07:39 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690
FETCH_UP
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,690 |
Quote:
I'd try talking to him again, maybe finding a friend of his or a son or nephew or someone that could "supervise". Then I'd want money back. I wouldn't cut the lock. I'd involve game warden too after trying to talk it out. After that, a lawyer.
I would be pissed as well but sig has the right idea, does he supervise everytime you are out there?
![[Linked Image]](http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x283/Redtail16/1029997171_l.jpg) HRCH ACE MH Triple D Duck Club
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#252830
11/13/07 07:44 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484
Big Orn
great white gorilla
|
|
great white gorilla
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484 |
Do what the contract states. If it states that you can hunt from a certain day to a certain or whatever, do it. He can tell you one thing, but the contract states another.
Make sure it's in writing. If it is, and he does differently, then he's breached the contract.
There's a lot of gray areas if precise days or weeks or months are not mentioned, though. Look over the contract real good and let us know what it says about your rights.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#252831
11/13/07 07:44 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6
jiml
OP
Green Horn
|
|
OP
Green Horn
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6 |
His son wont step up to the plate. Everyone on the lease has approached him being sympathetic to his health problem but also with our own. He's already said NO REFUNDS. What he doesn't understand is that he will lose and it will cost him money to fight us. Im still thinking Bolt Cutters.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: FETCH_UP]
#252832
11/13/07 07:45 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 852
USMarine
Tracker
|
|
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 852 |
Depending on the cost of the lease and if you intend on keeping it I believe will play part in how you handle the situation. Unfortunately leases that are not $1000 plus a gun are hard to come by and even though the situation is unfortunate now, if things get to bad you may be without a place to hunt at all. If talking to the fella doesn't pay off remember to consider what your other hunting option might be now and in the future.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: USMarine]
#252833
11/13/07 08:36 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 485
dwoftx
Bird Dog
|
|
Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 485 |
I know that Jim has been getting bad dealings from the beginning on this lease and now this during the start of the rut !!!!! Jim, pack the bolt cutters and go huntin'.
As SIG said, Maybe contacting the Game Warden before hand would keep ya'll out of jail. All 8 of you need to stick together on it, too. Approach it as a group instead of individually.
Last edited by dwoftx; 11/13/07 08:37 PM.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: dwoftx]
#252834
11/13/07 08:38 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484
Big Orn
great white gorilla
|
|
great white gorilla
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484 |
Yeah, a signed contract is binding. Get the GW out there and take charge!
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: Big Orn]
#252835
11/13/07 08:44 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 274
drdavidovich
Bird Dog
|
|
Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 274 |
Do you have a written contract of some sort? That is what will rule. If you don't then your in a much tougher spot, yes there are "verbal" contracts, but it gets much more difficult to enforce.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: Big Orn]
#252836
11/13/07 08:50 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,780
ralph
Veteran Tracker
|
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,780 |
I ain't no lawyer...but the contract issue is a civil matter, however,"bolt cutters" might very well make it a criminal matter and that probably wouldn't be in your best interest.
I don't know where you are located but if you don't live in Mason County then you are going to be the "stranger" in this deal.
The landowner and the sheriff(or even GW for that matter) may be best friends or even related...and that could make matters pretty unpleasant for you. You could find yourself in very unpleasant surroundings pretty quick if you're not careful.
My suggestion is talk to an attorney before doing anything rash.
Good luck.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: jiml]
#252837
11/13/07 09:12 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,640
SaginawHunter
Extreme Tracker
|
|
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,640 |
Hey Jim glad to see you on here. I would pack up the browning eurobolt, bolt cutters and monkeyboy and go hunting. Use Monkeyboy(Dave) to beat the sorry landowner about the head and ears if you catch any grief  . Honestly I would hunt what I paid for. Just keep your lawyers number on speed dial. Ken
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: ralph]
#252838
11/13/07 09:17 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484
Big Orn
great white gorilla
|
|
great white gorilla
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484 |
Quote:
I ain't no lawyer...but the contract issue is a civil matter, however,"bolt cutters" might very well make it a criminal matter and that probably wouldn't be in your best interest.
I don't know where you are located but if you don't live in Mason County then you are going to be the "stranger" in this deal.
The landowner and the sheriff(or even GW for that matter) may be best friends or even related...and that could make matters pretty unpleasant for you. You could find yourself in very unpleasant surroundings pretty quick if you're not careful.
My suggestion is talk to an attorney before doing anything rash.
Good luck.
Here's how I see it, ralph.
If this contract is not binding -- by law -- then no contract is binding. There would be no need to sign a contract if any party can breach as they wish. Everybody should be held accountable for their actions.
As an aside: There can be extenuating circumstances in anything and everything. Can the owner being in the hospital be one of them? I don't think so. JMHO.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: SaginawHunter]
#252839
11/13/07 09:21 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
If you pushed it or can't work it out, and went hunting anyways, you could probably win a legal fight. Just don't spend ALL you money on a lawyer cuz you'll probably need for a lease next year. And they aren't getting any cheaper.
Phish-Tx
Last edited by PHishTX; 11/13/07 09:24 PM.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: PHishTX]
#252840
11/13/07 09:27 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484
Big Orn
great white gorilla
|
|
great white gorilla
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484 |
Either I'm not getting the whole story, or I've took it wrong...
Why would he be in danger of losing his lease next time?
He's losing it right now...
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: Big Orn]
#252841
11/13/07 09:36 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
The way read it he is only loosing access to it while the owner has surgery. He didn't specify how long that is. But it seems possible that he could be back to hunting once the owner has his surgery, heck the season goes 'til Jan. And even renew it for next year.......
I'd like nothing better than to see the guy to work it out with the owner. Like Sig suggested. But if he takes it to a legal stand off I'd suspect he would not be hunting there next year. That's all.
My .02
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change?  TPWD
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: Big Orn]
#252842
11/13/07 09:37 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,243
wellingtontx
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,243 |
HOLD ON ! Ralph has the right idea. First question that any judge is going to ask or review is what does the contract state in writing ? The landowner could very well owe you a complete refund and quite frankly I would file suit on him before the sun sits in Mason County for breach of contract. File in JP Court. Each hunter can sue for up to a max of $5,000. Each one of you needs to file, will cost you less than $120 per person. In the meantime, don't let your emotions get in the way of good judgment and end up in jail. I dont think that the GW will help you. He is not a judge and will not advise you on the merits of your arguments. However, he will arrest you for trespassing if the landowner wants to press charges and then will simply let the court system determine if you are guilty (criminal) and whether the contract was breached (civil). I would be extremely pissed off; however, I would want my stuff off of the lease and do what it took to stay out of jail - and sue his butt as well.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: PHishTX]
#252843
11/13/07 09:51 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484
Big Orn
great white gorilla
|
|
great white gorilla
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 37,484 |
I see your point - but that would be just one day. Right?
I guess I did read it wrong. I took "while he was in the hospital" - which could be a month, maybe longer.
If it's just "during surgery" (which I don't follow at all, btw) then let it go. It ain't worth worrying about.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: wellingtontx]
#252844
11/13/07 09:54 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,179
CBHunter
Pro Tracker
|
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,179 |
What this all boils down to is do you want to be on this same lease next year. If you do, I would try to work something out with the landowner. If not, and you have a written lease agreement, you probably have the right to be on the land. If you cut the lock or try to get a refund of some sort, you probably won't be on the lease next year.
I had an issue with my landowner over liability insurance. I was following the lease agreement, and almost lost my lease because he got upset with me.
My wife's only thing is it can't stare at her when she is eating or sleeping!
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: CBHunter]
#252845
11/13/07 10:23 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 32
wjt
Light Foot
|
|
Light Foot
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 32 |
Do you have a written contract, if not I don't think you will have any chace in court.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: wjt]
#252846
11/14/07 12:23 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6
jiml
OP
Green Horn
|
|
OP
Green Horn
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6 |
I never got a lease agreement! However, I was expecting one next time I went to the ranch) I paid $ 2,300.00 for my spot on the lease. IAs I said before it is a heck of a lease and ran properly could have been a great lease. There are 8-spots on the lease. Everyone has paid there money.As far as getting on the lease next year, I dont think so. That would be like jumpin out of the skillet into the fire! No, I think Id just as soon as get my money back and go fishing. The old man ( Land Owner ) is just a sick ole man. Thats no excuse for doing what he's done. Im a contractor in Keller, Tx and I would never do a job without a contract of course I might give a guy $2,300.00 to hunt without a contract but thats me! ( Not to bright) I appreciate all the feed back from you guys. I never expected this much but I will say this. It will go to court and we will win but I aint huntin this year. Someone asked how long he would be in the hospital.1-2 weeks. Its the principal here. He might die and I hope the gate's not locked if he does.
Good Hunting.
Jim L
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: jiml]
#252847
11/14/07 12:29 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6
jiml
OP
Green Horn
|
|
OP
Green Horn
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 6 |
Quote:
I never got a lease agreement! However, I was expecting one next time I went to the ranch) I paid $ 2,300.00 for my spot on the lease. IAs I said before it is a heck of a lease and ran properly could have been a great lease. There are 8-spots on the lease. Everyone has paid there money.As far as getting on the lease next year, I dont think so. That would be like jumpin out of the skillet into the fire! No, I think Id just as soon as get my money back and go fishing. The old man ( Land Owner ) is just a sick ole man. Thats no excuse for doing what he's done. Im a contractor in Keller, Tx and I would never do a job without a contract of course I might give a guy $2,300.00 to hunt without a contract but thats me! ( Not to bright) I appreciate all the feed back from you guys. I never expected this much but I will say this. It will go to court and we will win but I aint huntin this year. Someone asked how long he would be in the hospital.1-2 weeks. Its the principal here. He might die and I hope the gate's not locked if he does.
Good Hunting. 
Jim L
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: jiml]
#252848
11/14/07 12:33 AM
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,056
HWY_MAN
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,056 |
Quote:
I never got a lease agreement!
Thats not good!!!!
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: HWY_MAN]
#252849
11/14/07 12:36 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,268
7mag
THF Celebrity
|
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,268 |
Quote:
Quote:
I never got a lease agreement!
Thats great!!!!
![[Linked Image]](https://s20.postimg.cc/5cn5isf7d/20180718_153033_1531957938497.jpg) "Laugh with many, but don't trust any"
|
|
|
|
Re: Deer Lease rules
[Re: 7mag]
#252850
11/14/07 01:15 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 123
Chuckybrown
Woodsman
|
|
Woodsman
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 123 |
Well, I do "contract law" for a living, and the issue as you describe it leaves alot of questions. Without visiting the document/lease you may or may not have in hand, let's go forward assuming you have a lease, and assuming you have a right to enter during the hunting season, and your options:
A) Hire an attorney. In the end this will ultimately be on your nickel.
B) Sue this guy in small claims court. It's fast, he'll be served promptly, and it puts him on notice that the issue at hand is a legal one, and you take him seriously. You can do this by going to the county courthouse that your lease is in, and paying minimal fees to sue him. Remember, you are out not only the fees of the lease, but also the "value" of what you expected to harvest. I'm saying this because small claims courts are often limted to a specific dollar amount, and sometimes county specific. Check with the clerks office when you pick up the forms to sue.
C) Enter the property if the gate is locked. While this may make you "feel" better, it opens whole 'nother can or worms regarding right to enter, which will ulitmately be argued during A or B above.
I'm merely guessing, but I'm betting' that if you set down and read your lease (if there is one YOU signed) there's conflicts between it and the one signed between this "boss" you describe and the landowner, muddying up the waters even further.
At a minimum, a trespass charge is an arrest record that you don't want. If you're found guilty, my guess is the fines and your time far outweigh your hunting fee.
My advise? If you look at your document and really feel you have a case, sue him in small claims court. Count this season as a loss, and go hunt with a friend or day-hunt elsewhere. Some of life's lessons come from a gentle squeeze on the neck. Others come full force from a steel toe'd boot, if you know what I mean.
I wish you luck my friend...
Last edited by Chuckybrown; 11/14/07 01:19 AM.
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, hetman, jeh7mmmag, JustWingem, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, rifleman, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|
