...or any other advice given.

I am finaly making that first big purchase of a rifle. I am shooting mainly deer but I like the .243 for its varmit properties.

I know that everyone likes THIER caliber... but I am considering this situation.

I like the New England H&R. If anyone know anything BAD about it speak now or I will regret it later. So far I have not heard anything bad about it. It is not a top of the line gun. But it shoots VERY well compared to the price(just over $200).

I am considering a .243 in a 22" barrel vs. a 25.06 in a 26" barrel.

Question #1 is there a big diffrence in a 22 - 26" barrel?

Question #2 are there any advanages to the 26" barrel?

Question #3 is there any advantage to a bull barrel?

I like the .243 with its flatter shooting, quieter, and less recoil.

I dont think there is much diffrence in knock down power at 250 yards.

Feel free to express opinion, likes, dis likes, facts or fiction.

Seth

I just sold one that my daughter hunted with last year, it would not shoot groups less than 3 to 4" in .223 tried new rings,scope,and adjusted forearm screw as they recommended with no luck. Just my .02 cents not trying to get my head bit off again but I wouldnt by another one for any reason. Shot pretty good for the first year.

Sooooo, in other words its "trashy"?

LMFAO!

NOOO, DON'T GO THERE AGAIN!!!

Anyone else with this veiw? Or have they treated others diffrent?

Not trashy, My new.300 would be trashy but not the nef, my little brother has one in 243 and it has been ok.

sooooooo is your .300 a good gun or a bad gun???

I'm confused!

Seth

There is a picture of it in the rifle forum you tell me? I would have to say it is pretty sweet. I liked the trash (extra kickers on that buck) it was the rest of the deer that was not impressive to me.

Also have to use high rings which take your head up on the stock (hammer to clear scope) the triggers are also pretty heavy on the nef which take away from accuracy, I know there are a few smiths that will lighten the trigger pull on these. Did you consider an Encore if your going to single shot.

The 243 is a good caliber for deer.

The difference between a 22 inch versus a 26 inch barrel is a few hundred feet of velocity and a few hundred pounds of energy with the longer barrel.

As far as knock down power at 250 to 300 yards the 25-06 is the better choice, because you can get heavier bullets in the .257 caliber than you can the .243, 120 grains versus 100 grains. A heavier bullet is going to hit harder and penetrate farther than a lighter bullet.

The bull barrel makes the gun heavier, and if shooting a lot takes longer to heat up where accuracy would be affected.

Unless you are planning on having to shoot more than twice, you don't need a bull barrel and you don't need a single shot.

Either will adequately do everything you are going to want, the 25-06 will do the job slightly better, the 243 will be somewhat easier to find ammo for.

This is just my opinion, because I would not own either, but they are excellent choices.

More with longer barrel.

Exactly.

I forget what the exact numbers are, maybe my evil henchman, WileyCoyote will get on here and explain this more intelligently, but the longer barrel allows the powder in the shell to reach its optimum performance level.

In a single shot or double barrel rifle this is not a problem when it comes to overall length of the rifle.

On a bolt action, it can or does make the o.a.l. of the gun too long in some situations, i.e. shooting from a stand, hunting in brush.

Thanks CHC.

Anyone else have any experiance with H&R's?

Seth

Though I like the .243 a lot, in a one to one comparison the 25-06 is a better all around choice in my opinion. Much like comparing their parents (308 vs 30-06), which has probably been the hottest and longest running cartridge comparison debate in shooting history, it comes down to the fact that the 06's can always do just a little more. With a 100 grain load there is about a 200fps advantage to the 25-06 over the 243 in the same length barrel. Not that big of a deal, but as was stated earlier, the 25-06 can easily go to 120 grains where the heaviest 243 bullet I have used is 105 grains.

I have used a custom 25-06 that was built for me by a friend on a 700 action on many antelope, mule deer, and whitetails and it is my favorite all around deer caliber hands down. It is extremely flat shooting and has all of the knockdown power needed for clean, one shot kills on any deer.

That is my 2cents

Ive got a 243 right now and have had no problems at all with it and has done the job everytime. I did shot a 25-06 last weekend and just loved it. Like everybody else said it just a little bigger and that helps alot in the long run. The only thing is finding good ammo for it will be a little harder then just going to a local Wally World. Both guns should be a good choice however you decide to go.

had a .223 that did not shoot very well. had to drop down to 45 grain bullets to get a 1.5" group at 100 yards. also had extractor problems.

I have a gun shop and a gun range and many years experience in shooting. The H & R seem to be Ok and much more consistant on there grouping over the rossi guns. The secret to both is not to let the barrel get to hot or they will not group at all. The difference in the longer barrels is more velocity and typically better accuracy. Have seen short barrels that were real tack drivers but in general longer barrels in my experience have been better. Alot of it has to do with the caliber. A .308 or 243 will shoot good with a short barrel but a 25-06 typically wont. Not sure if this will help just straight from my experience.

JMHO but here goes...max bullet weights in a .244 caliber is 105 gr's aka 243Win & 6mm Rem, & a .257 caliber is 120 gr's aka 25WSSM, 257 Roberts, 25'06, 257 Weatherby. Both calibers are well thought of for varmints & WT & Mule Deer as "combo" calibers, which was a popular concept introduced back in the 1950's by writers like Warren Page for a "one gun" shooter who wanted to shoot everything from coyotes, ground hogs, prairie dogs, pronghorn antelope and deer all out of the same rifle...because they were not able to afford a 2nd rifle for hunting varmints.

Dunno a thing about the "new to me" concept of the desirability of a single shot built up off a break action pistol, either in a NEF or Encore...and I belong to the school of thought that would not own one, with all due respect to the Farqharson actioned Ruger #1's which are a whole different critter...or expect a NEF/Encore to be able to shoot as well as a more traditional rifle due to the basic design differences. However, I can speak from extensive experience about the differences in the 243Win & the 25'06Remmy calibers.

Again, please understand that all caliber selections are as personal as your choice between blondes and brunettes as THE critter of choice.

It all depends on whether or not you handload which is the better choice for a "do all" 'yote to muler deer rifle. IF you do NOT handload then by all means buy a 243 Win as you factory ammo selection is very limited at best in any 257 caliber, as it falls in the gap between the super popular 243 and the even bigger audience for and more popular 270 that does everything and bigtime more than a 257caliber can ever hope to do.

But IMO the bottom line is for WT's in Texas, hogs in Texas and the occasional varmint I would NOT own either a 243Win or a 25'06 Rem as there are significantly better choices available, that offer every aspect of performance better than either caliber... but then I have handloaded and hunted in Texas, and other places for the better part of 40 years. Please go read my posts in the "Max Point Blank Range" thread for a overview of my thoughts on this subject.

The basic questions you've asked require a complete understanding of the differences between barrel length, chamber pressures, receiver length requirements, bullet construction including the importance of differences in Ballistic Coeffiecnts & Sectional Density between calibers, and a multitude of other factors. There are NO simple one word answers like ..."buy that...and don't buy this for this or that application" as there is way too much overlap in functionality between most of the calibers in this "class" or size range to address in a web's post without boring you to tears.

To prove my point ...go look at the ammo wall at any Academy store and you see that 75-80% of ALL the factory ammo is in 4-5 rifle calibers because they represent 75-80% of ALL the rifle ammo sold at retail. count how many different selections are available in a 243Win, 270Win, 7RMg, 308Win and 30'06 ...because ANY of them will be more selections than all the other calibers have combined or close to it especially in 243/270 & 30'06.

I currently own and shoot 4 calibers...and only one is a commonly available caliber. I shoot a 6.5x55 SE, a 270, a 300WMg & a 9.3x62 Mauser...and while I can find 6.5 & 300wmg ammo in most big box retailers I can find 270 ammo in any gas station, C-Store, honky tonk & resturant in deer country ...same thing can be said of 243 & '06 ammo.

Now, the comparison IMO is between a 270 & a 243...and there is NO comparison except for a 30'06.

Find a good gun store and ask the OWNER to explian the "facts" of life to you. Do NOT misunderatand...I am not saying that the 25'06 or 243 is a bad caliber for it's intended purpose...just that a 270 is a much better choice for 90%+ of all DEER hunters (and elk & black bear hunters too!) over a 25'06 & mebbe double or triple a 243 day in day out coast to coast border to border. JMHO but YMMV.
Ron

Personally I would buy a little better rifle in a 6.5x55 I have one and would not trade for it. If you want a 243 than buy one. The beauty of this whole thing is that if it ain't exactly what you want than you can buy another rifle in a different caliber. I would bet that most folks on this forum have at least 3 or 4 rifles, assorted pistols and shotguns because at the time they purchased them it was "what they wanted"

I agree with everything that Wiley said. I have a Handi rifle in 25-06. It shot great when I bought it, right aroung 1.25 groups. Then after about 50 rounds it began to open up, to the point that it would not stay on the paper. I am pretty sure that it was the cheap Tasco scope that went to pot, but I just bought a CZ 550 in 6.5x55 and never really messed with the Handi again. It is in my safe if you are interested, I will make you a really good deal.

Otherwise, I would look at a Savage or Vangaurd, much more rifle for the money, IMO.

Any time you have a break open rifle you have a potential problem with the barrel fitting back into the receiver in EXACTLY the same place time after time...because you are dependent on the hinge pin not to have any wear at all.

There are enough problems with the fit and "connection" between a traditional bolt action rifle with it's fixed and threaded barrel to receiver setup and that components movement in the handle/stock setup from shot to shot so that you always have the best chance for the same exact bullet placement down range. Lever Action guns with a two piece stock are also subject to less than stellar accuracy problems because they usually only have a single long threaded screw running up thru the butt stock into the back of the reciever like a pump/auto shotgun..and is VERY subject to wear and loosening over time...and can generate the "wobble" factor I am trying to describe.

While I am not a gunsmith, I have always been amazed with the popularity of gadgets that are IMO what the NEF and others are. I can understand handguns, even LARGE handgun cartridges, being built on a break open Thompson Contender styled action. Ruger has been successful in building their Number 1 series accuracy wise ...but they don't offer the interchangabilty of the NEF et al single shots.

IMO if you want to change calibers from time to time ... either buy a battery of cheap guns like a Stephens 200 at about $300 a piece or learn to pull the barrel nut design on the Savage/Stephens design and swap barrels that way and you will have a solid dependable lifetime shooter. Midway sells the barrel wrench, head space guages and factory barrels in kits or as seperate items, and as I understand it you can can also convert the bolt face from a Magnum .532 bolt face to standard caliber's .473 bolt face too within the same reciever length...I ain't got the inclination to fiddle with my guns that much and would rather put my efforts into a batch of "all alike" guns in order to change calibers.

At one time I took a slightly different path and began to acquire a battery of rifles in 5 different calibers ranging from 223 to 300WMg and was looking to add to that collection in larger & other non cataloged calibers when my access to do this was "disrupted"... but these were all the same brand, model & stock shape. Unfortunatly those limited production and one of a kind non cataloged collectors quality SAKO Classic Grades's went away to fund a failed business venture...and if I were to do that again today I probably would do it in the Tikka T3's as they are prolly the best buy for the money in US today for a non collectors quality tool and offer the same size, weight, & shaped stock & reciever setup from 223 thru 338WMg in the US and a 9.3x62 - which is about 98% performance wise in the same weight bullets as a 375H&H but without the heavy recoil - among other euro calibers in Canada. The only other brand that is close to being similar in caliber selection is the CZ 550 series...and are also great guns for the money.

Of the 4 rifles I own currently, two are Tikka T3's and 1 is a CZ 550. I also own Win M70 Classic Grade 300WMg...which may or may not stay in that caliber as I been lusting for a larger 400 something caliber when my surgically repaired neck & shoulder can stand it and the M70 is going to be the conversion donor victim...and I have already acquired a 300WMg barrel for a CZ 550... and pick up another 9.3x62 in a 20.6" carbine for a deep woods deer/hog/elk/bear but I will always own a common rifle caliber in a 270/308/30'06 for access to ammo anywhere in the world for North American or thin skinned non dangerous Afrcan game. JMHO but YMMV.
Ron

I"m looking for a flat shooting gun for less than $500.

I wont be shooting past 300 yards. I want something thats close clear out to 300 yards.

Seth

if you are planning on shooting out to 300 yrds, i would go with a 7mm-08 or 270. both are very capable of taking game down at that range and beyond with 140 grain bullets. i would check out a savage, howa or weatherby (all under $500 easily).

This is JMHO for a budget under $500 for a rifle by itself & not knowing what your market availabilty is for shopping competitively...you would do well to consider these guns ...in no particular order...and look for something that fits you best 1st, then is the best buy for the feature VS value thing according to your desires for wood stock x synthetic stock etc.
Savage - has several models that fit in this price range, and while I am not big fan of the AccuTrigger it has merit according to some folks I trust.Has an excellent reputation for accuracy. The Stephens 200 series is the same gun as a base model Savage 110 w/out the ACTrigger...and might be my choice as long as I was planning on replacing the trigger with a fully adjustable aftermarket one for about $100 + labor that is superior IMO to the ACTrigger.

Howa1500/Weatherby Vanguard - same gun only with some upgrades in the Weatherby, typically needs I've seen are especially in the Howa is a barrel float & seal job & trigger adjustment...both not terribly expensive and well worth the investment. In a wood stock especially I'd consider 'glass bedding money allowing. Cold hammer forged barrels can be extremely accurate.

Remington offers some guns below the target $$$'s but in this price range I would be leary of them. Remmy prolly has more aftermarket toys than any other brand for a reason.

Ruger 77RL's - I am still seeing some of the old style RL series for under $500...BPS's last flier I recv'd had some 243 & 308 Allweather SS/syns @ $439 that have to be a bargain of the best kind...they will prolly need a small trigger tuning but what a bargain in a great gun that has a true Controlled Round Feed extraction system. Wood stocked Ruger's will alomost always need the barrel floated, and every Ruger RL I've ever seen will need the receiver screws "tuned" which is a piece of cake to do.

Tikka T3's: in standard calibers - I am still seeing some blue/synthetics at around the $459-$479 figure that have to be the best buy of the lot IMO at under $500 feature x value. Basic out of the box no tune needed shooter that is guaranteed 3 shots in an inch from the factory & features also include...target crown, cold hammer forged barrel that has been diamond swaged (polished on the inside), fully adjustable trigger, floated barrel, rings included & adjustable rail ring mounting system to allow mounting of any kind of scope or drilled & tapped for common aftermarket bases and rings, 60* bolt lift, SAKO styled spring loaded ejector that is a modified Control Round Feed design & vastly superior to all the "Push Feed" guns like Savage, Remington, Howa'by, Winchester non CRF etc, carbon fiber impregnated synthetic stock for strength - not just a fiberglass or rubbery tupperware type stock ala the Ruger/Howa'by/Savage guns come to mind off the top of my head...but what will jump out at you first is the weight is 6lbs 3ozs, which means for an average 3x9x40 scope & ammo the ready to shoot gun will weigh less than a Ruger 77RL bare nekkid...and because the bolt & receiver is so highly polished on the inside you can sometimes load a round out of the magazine into the chamber by tilting the gun back and forth because the bolt & the receivers guide rails are that slick....which normally is a $100+ 'smith job.

Anyway those would be my choices without regard for anyone's ego since none of these guns are ever going to have any collectors value in this price range, but pay close attention to the fit and feel ...an make your own decisions from there. Have Fun!
Ron

Had one for my son in .223 and .243 none shot under 2.5 inches, if you want a sigle shot go w/ t/c pro, if price is the cocern go w/ h&r-nef. Might also want to try a Savage, some of my friends have had great luck w/ thier guns, I would also prefer 25-06 lots of options in that caliber.
just my opinion.
David