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Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. #2375803 06/18/11 01:27 PM
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WASHINGTON -- For a $3,950 trophy fee, plus daily guide charges, one Texas company advertising on the Internet lets people kill African zebras with rifles, bows and arrows or even handguns.

A bill introduced Thursday by U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., would ban the practice of captive hunting of exotic species in the 23 states that permit it. Tennessee, Arkansas and Mississippi place restrictions on some captive hunting, but Tennessee's regulations are limited to exotic big cats, such as lions and tigers, and bears. Eleven states have complete bans on the practice of hunting fenced-in animals.

Tennessee has 22 big-game captive hunting sites and the vast majority are for shooting wild boars, said Walter T. Cook, captive wildlife coordinator for the Tennessee Wildlife Resources Agency. Zebras and African antelope would be legal to kill in the state, but Cook said he's never heard of a zebra shot in Tennessee in 18 years and the antelope killings are very rare. Sika elk, originally from Japan, also have been taken.

Tennessee currently has a moratorium on licensing any more big-game hunting preserves, said Steve Nifong, acting chief of enforcement with the TWRA.

Cohen maintains that captive hunting -- hunting within fenced enclosures from which the animal target cannot escape -- is not a sport and is "contrary to the principles of fair chase."

The measure introduced Thursday was co-sponsored by U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Calif., who called such hunting "abhorrent and cruel."

The Humane Society and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, among other groups, oppose captive -- sometimes called "canned" -- hunting.

An effort to ban captive hunting at the ballot box in North Dakota failed in 2008 when the initiative's sponsors couldn't get a the required number of petition signatures.

-- Bartholomew Sullivan: (202) 408-2726

Here is it guys, a member of the US HR presenting a bill to ban the hunting of certain species. In an era with decreasing numbers of hunters it puts everyone at risk. Anti-hunting is closely linked to the anti-gun crowd and their actions are often closely coordinated.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: quartierleblanc] #2375873 06/18/11 02:22 PM
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Chuck McDonald Offline
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I don't care one way or another. I don't think people who go hunt in cages for exotics are real hunter anyways. If they were they would be in Africa.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: Chuck McDonald] #2375905 06/18/11 02:43 PM
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If they get hunting in a high fence banned, why do you think they would stop there?


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: Chuck McDonald] #2375913 06/18/11 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chuck McDonald
I don't care one way or another. I don't think people who go hunt in cages for exotics are real hunter anyways. If they were they would be in Africa.


I've hunted in Africa, that make me more of a hunter than you? Am I a “real” hunter? You hunt with a bow? Everyone knows that’s the only “real” hunting. It’s silly to project your ideas and hunting philosophy onto others. Just like someone telling me I don't need an AR to hunt so I should not have one. Silly.


Last edited by godfather; 06/18/11 02:57 PM.

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Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: godfather] #2375929 06/18/11 03:04 PM
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Yep, the attitude of " I don't care if it doesn't involve the way I hunt or the weapon that I chose to use" will the vehicle thru which "they" we remove all of our rights.

Please think thru this before you jump to a conclusion.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: JJH] #2376020 06/18/11 04:15 PM
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You got it one JJ and that is one of the most intelligent statements I've heard on this forum. There's way too much of I've got mine therefore I don't care attitude and unfortunately I've seen a lot of it here. The Congressman is an interesting fellow and in his state he's going to get a lot of support for this law by HUNTERS. It's a classic divide and conquer technique. Divide the gun owners from the hunters. Divide the rifle hunters from the bowhunters. Divide landowners from hunters. They know what they're doing. The Congressman is considered to a very very smart guy who represents a predominant Black district, but who at times is somewhat progun. I'll have to look up his NRA ranking.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: godfather] #2376044 06/18/11 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: godfather
Originally Posted By: Chuck McDonald
I don't care one way or another. I don't think people who go hunt in cages for exotics are real hunter anyways. If they were they would be in Africa.


I've hunted in Africa, that make me more of a hunter than you? Am I a “real” hunter? You hunt with a bow? Everyone knows that’s the only “real” hunting. It’s silly to project your ideas and hunting philosophy onto others. Just like someone telling me I don't need an AR to hunt so I should not have one. Silly.


Well said. If it is a legal way to hunt than I support the person that wants to hunt that way. I don't have a desire to hunt Mt. Lion with hounds, but if its legal than why would I project my views about "right or wrong" methods. That is the way hunting is gonna take a big hit. Trust me the HSUSA and PETA are VERY well funded and one misplaced rule is bad for all of us. I know when I hunt I set in a stand and watch the few acres around me. So If I am in a 300-3000 acre area how is that less hunting? When the Exotics that are extinct in native habitats are no longer huntable here will you be happy that they become extinct? Who is gonna raise Scimatar Oryx if they can maybe only sell 1 or so hunts a year. The answer is no one. My guess is we will all of a sudden have a large population of Free-Range Scimatar Oryx after everyone turns them out. Its bad all the way around.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: JakeinTX] #2376104 06/18/11 05:13 PM
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I don't know what the data is now but 25 states most recently Indiana have now banned or so severely regulated high fence hunting that the remainder will go out of business. The ban has now reached enough momentum to go national and with a national push and with the majority of hunters supporting the measure, there is a good chance it could pass in some form.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: quartierleblanc] #2376126 06/18/11 05:26 PM
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I don't care about high fences in effort to enhance the native population. Just don't put 20 Zebras in a 200 acre cage and call it hunting, it's not and you should have your man card revoked for doing it.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: Chuck McDonald] #2376175 06/18/11 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chuck McDonald
I don't care one way or another. I don't think people who go hunt in cages for exotics are real hunter anyways. If they were they would be in Africa.


Apparently you need to go hunt south africa... Then report back on real hunters


Last edited by BOBO the Clown; 06/18/11 06:02 PM.

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Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: BOBO the Clown] #2376205 06/18/11 06:22 PM
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So you have become so blinded by Money and the ease of hunting in a cage, that you think hunting a Zebra in Texas is better than hunting it on the plains of Africa.
My point is if you get your rocks off by hunting in a canned hunt for an African animal in Texas, you are not a real hunter in my mind. Your just a killer.
Frankly I hate the exotic ranches in the US, if you want an animal from Asia go to Asia, one from Africa go to Africa. If god didn't put it here it doesn't belong here. The spainard brought hogs to North America 500 years ago, look at the mess they are now. 500 years from now are our people going to be cussing us for the same?


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: BOBO the Clown] #2376213 06/18/11 06:25 PM
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Would anyone care for some Grey Poupon for their Democrap muyloco



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Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: Chuck McDonald] #2376261 06/18/11 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chuck McDonald
I don't care about high fences in effort to enhance the native population. Just don't put 20 Zebras in a 200 acre cage and call it hunting, it's not and you should have your man card revoked for doing it.


Chuck: I don't think "20 zebras in 200 acres" is hunting either. But there are a lot of things in this country that people are free to do (at least so far) that I have no interest in doing. But I dang sure don't want the gov'mint passing more laws to prevent other folks from doing it just because it doesn't suit my taste.

It's called FREEDOM. Let folks do what they want to do, with minimal interference from the government.

Do you LIKE having the government tell you what you can do and what you cant'???


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: Chuck McDonald] #2376265 06/18/11 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chuck McDonald
So you have become so blinded by Money and the ease of hunting in a cage, that you think hunting a Zebra in Texas is better than hunting it on the plains of Africa.


What he means is there are A LOT of hight fenced ranches in Africa. I don't see why you care what other people do, it's none of your business if it does not affect you.



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Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: godfather] #2376445 06/18/11 08:58 PM
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But not a lot and virtually all of them are RSA or Zambia. High fenced hunting there means tens of thousands of acres as well.
I personally don't like high fence and no, hunting a Zebra in Africa is a much more sporting situation than a canned hunt on small acreage here in Texas, BUT I'm not going to pass judgement either.
What this thread is about is reading the tea leaves and seeing where this is going. By now a plurality of states have outlawed or essentially regulated high fenced hunting out of business. The movement has now gone national. Here is what we face. Item #1 is decreasing numbers of hunters. The numbers continue to slip. On a good front, nationally there is stronger than ever support for hunters by the general public IF it's fair chase. Lastly the general public is overwhelming opposed to trophy hunting per se. IF the hunting powers that be which are essentially the hunters themselves as well as big equipment manufacturers want this, then it might just pass on a national level. Both the PETA crowd and antigun crowd would take this a victory.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: quartierleblanc] #2376475 06/18/11 09:16 PM
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JJH my first post said I didn't care. I don't support this bill but I am not going to jump in to rail against it. If I spent all my time supporting or opposing every peice of dumb butt legislation that comes through our government I would be living in a box. Of course the government would supply that box and I could drive a $700 car with $5000 of rims and tires, ah the american dream.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: Chuck McDonald] #2376548 06/18/11 10:01 PM
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Majority of s. africa is HF'd... it also why the animals are not extinct there yet.

Don't think just b/c I support property owner rights that I hunt cages.



Originally Posted By: Chuck McDonald
So you have become so blinded by Money and the ease of hunting in a cage, that you think hunting a Zebra in Texas is better than hunting it on the plains of Africa.
My point is if you get your rocks off by hunting in a canned hunt for an African animal in Texas, you are not a real hunter in my mind. Your just a killer.
Frankly I hate the exotic ranches in the US, if you want an animal from Asia go to Asia, one from Africa go to Africa. If god didn't put it here it doesn't belong here. The spainard brought hogs to North America 500 years ago, look at the mess they are now. 500 years from now are our people going to be cussing us for the same?



Last edited by BOBO the Clown; 06/18/11 10:04 PM.

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Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: Chuck McDonald] #2376620 06/18/11 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Chuck McDonald
I don't care one way or another. I don't think people who go hunt in cages for exotics are real hunter anyways. If they were they would be in Africa.
You better care unless you are a member of some anti hunting group.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: BOBO the Clown] #2376691 06/18/11 11:45 PM
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BOBO you're simply crazy if you think the majority of land in Africa is high fenced. It's not. That's one of the stupidiest statments ever made on this forum. The RSA has the most but even a lot of that is coming down with the move toward concessions which merge big ranches into huge hunting blocks.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: Chuck McDonald] #2376788 06/19/11 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: Chuck McDonald
JJH my first post said I didn't care. I don't support this bill but I am not going to jump in to rail against it. If I spent all my time supporting or opposing every peice of dumb butt legislation that comes through our government I would be living in a box. Of course the government would supply that box and I could drive a $700 car with $5000 of rims and tires, ah the american dream.


Chuck: all I can say is that people who don't have time to keep up with what their representatives are doing are the reason that we have the screwed up mess that we have in DC.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: JJH] #2376906 06/19/11 02:20 AM
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Why do you think I posted this. Too many people especially landowners have their heads stuck in the sand. If you look at the second article I posted it now Animal Planet is going to do a special on it. Read the tea leaves.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: quartierleblanc] #2377023 06/19/11 03:33 AM
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So your saying that there aren't many HFs in RSA...darn't I need to take my dad to get his eyes checked...3 uncles, 2 friends, and a guy who works for me thats from S.Africa and family runs hunts that their blind idiots .

Originally Posted By: quartierleblanc
BOBO you're simply crazy if you think the majority of land in Africa is high fenced. It's not. That's one of the stupidiest statments ever made on this forum. The RSA has the most but even a lot of that is coming down with the move toward concessions which merge big ranches into huge hunting blocks.




Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: quartierleblanc] #2377027 06/19/11 03:36 AM
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How are the feds going to impose federal refs on livestock fence heights???
Tax them to death ?
Originally Posted By: quartierleblanc
Why do you think I posted this. Too many people especially landowners have their heads stuck in the sand. If you look at the second article I posted it now Animal Planet is going to do a special on it. Read the tea leaves.




Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: BOBO the Clown] #2377043 06/19/11 03:50 AM
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BOBO get real. RSA hunting is not the end all. Concession size is absolutely huge there, to the tens of thousands of acres organized more and more into huge concessions. The rest of Africa doesn't have high fence. Zambia some, but the size is still huge and can be considered fair chase both there and the RSA. Botswana, Mozambique, Namibia, Tanzania, Zimbabwe along with the rest has little if any fence. You don't know what you're talking about if you even remotely think that the RSA even is remotely similiar to Texas. The rest of it is certainly not.


Re: Attempts by HR member to ban hunting. [Re: quartierleblanc] #2377148 06/19/11 04:45 AM
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In a way its good and in a way it's bad. All these canned hunts do Is give these anti org. something to go one that is worse than hunting in their eyes. Which I would agree, it's not hunting by no means it's a joke, but without the canned hunts that would be less ammunition for the pricks.

But on the other hand if they can pass it then where and when will they stop. No ban on any kind of hunting will not be good for the future of hunting. That's how I see it, what's the best thing, who knows.



�There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never cared for anything else thereafter.�- Ernest Hemingway

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