Sweet click on his name go to profile and put him on ignore, first person i have done this to. Works like a champ

WTF????

Place him on ignore it makes life easier

To get back to the original topic... check out the CZ line of rifles. I shoot a 527 American in .223. The combination of the single set trigger, beautiful wood, and cheap ammo make it a pleasure to shoot. With the proper bullet it is plenty capable for Texas deer and hogs.

come on not you too.
couple of facts , max loads are not the holy grail of handloading.
One book will list 45 gr as max for a given powder, nuther book will list it as 47 gr.
As a handloader you must work up checking for pressure signs , yep its that simple.

to recommend that folks load above max loads is irresponsible. You have no idea what the pressure is with a particular load in a particular rifle. And the classic pressure signs have been shown to be a poor indicator of actual pressures due to variance in brass hardness, primer hardness, etc. Moreover, it is not the average pressure of a given load that is of concern it is the max pressure. Shoot the same load in the same gun 10 times and there will be 10 different pressure levels (and ten different velocities). With some cartridges and some rifles the pressure variation is much greater than others. So perhaps 9 of the ten loads would be safe.

Bottom line is that unless you have access to very sophisticated, and expensive, pressure measuring equipment, you have no idea what the pressure is. All you know is that it is a couple of inches from your brain!

And look at the risk/reward ratio. What do you gain by pushing the limit? 50fps, 100fps? No deer or game animal will know the difference, but you may be putting yourself and others at risk. If you want more velocity, get a cartridge with a bigger case!

Absolutely.

I was wondering about a .223 for whitetail hunting. Is it a rifle that could consistently take a deer down with no problems?

with the right bullet, and under certain conditions, the 223 will certainly kill a deer. But it is not the best choice for general deer hunting, IMHO.

Jjh isspot on

Ive never recommended what a person should load, never, all I posted was what I was getting in one of my loads.
handloaders been loading for a long time with tell tale pressure signs, its absolutely a reliable way, sticky bolts are for sure way youve reached max, melted headstamps or shiny ones with marks are too, its been done that way and still is, sorry but yer wrong.
Factory loads can easily be made to reach high pressure, leave them in the sun a few minutes, ive seen them gain 100 fps by doing this. reaching slightly higher pressures arent going to blow yer gun up either just ruined brass. If tell tale pressure were not reliable no one would be abe to reload without testing equipmetn, man where do you guy come up with this stuff., You have to work a load up looking for signs, just cause its published doesnt mean you can just dump in a max charge, come on dude get real. One can easily exceed max cup with published data.

vanguard:

You may not have specifically RECOMMENDED exceeding max loads, you certainly indicated that it is an acceptable practice.

When I started reloading the the early '60's, there were lots of articles around explaining how to judge pressure by examining fired cases, primers, etc. I can still remember looking at a primer in a fired case and smugly thinking,
"pressure must be about 52,000 psi". And I still have a copy of an article from the late '70's, explaining how to estimate pressure by measuring expansion of the case head just in front of the web.

But as more accurate and sophisticated, non-destructive, pressure measuring equipment became available, it became very obvious that chamber pressure from shot to shot can vary significantly. And for some reason, some cartridges have a larger standard deviation than others. I believe this one of the main reasons that reloading data today is more conservative than it was 50 years ago. The concern is not the average pressure generated by a particular load, but the maximum.

Now there is also the concern of metal fatique. If a pressure vessel is continuously stressed. It may at some point fail at pressures that it once could contain.

I spent my career as an engineer in the refining and petrochemical industries. And if you have ever seen a vessel operating at 50 or 60,000 psi fail, you will never want to see one again! Especially one that is inches from your face!

Fortunately, engineers design products with a significant safely factors. So you may push the envelope and be fortunate enough to never have a problem. but the question is WHY would you do it??

Pushing the envelope, no only involves risks, it also decreases barrel life, causes increased brass stretching so more frequent trimming is required, and brass life is decreased.

And what is gained? A few feet per second, and a few foot pounds of energy. Neither of which will be noticable in the field, either in trajectory or by the animal.

excellent post and rebuttal.
Take note guys this how a conversation and dissagreement is suppose to be done, not yer a stoopid retard.
Anyway I agree but I can asure im safe, been getting about 10 firings from a case with one load one gr over max, and velocity right at what it suppose to be with 1 gr less.

But for me handloading is all about getting the most I can out of a cartridge, does it make a difference on deer, nope but it sure is nice to see that crono flash and crunch those flat trajectories

the .270 has been at it since 1930 or so.....

Me too. But accuracy, consistency, reliability, safety and terminal performance are the criteria. Not max velocity. If I need a flatter trajectory than my 270, I'll take my 264.

I would tell you, get the .308 in a Savage and ......

x1000000 lol!!

der u go talkin dat trigg nonsense dude jus get a savage no trigg job der

to give advice to load over max opens you up for someone to own everything you own, there's a reason why there are max loads in actual writing by companies. (don't care one way or the other, just saying...)

For a newbie, you could range anywhere from 243 to 300wm in the right rifle and be perfectly fine.

If u wasnt something for target shooting and for hunting den a medium range cal. would suit u best. Any of da .24,.25, or da .277,even da 708 would work great for what u asked about.

308 good rifle

I don't know my bedded remington sps sure shots good... no matter what factory ammo I put in it. Tsx's, accubonds, spirepoints and spitzers. Really like the accuracy of the VLD's I just tried out...just not sold on them as a high velocity hunting bullet .

Lol savage is the worst of all of them

There are as many opinions as the stars in the sky. Mine would be a 223 for plinking and a 270 for hunting. At least that's what I start out with.