Biggest deciding factor I have seen on the ranches I feed about first year spikes is how much rain we've had. Wet year or rain at the best possible times means very few first year spikes. Dry year and you will have more spikes. Everything I feed is low fence.

My studies and research have shown me that a deer steak marinated in zesty italian dressing and then cooked over a fire with a little season salt and garlic powder is pretty darn good. In my further whitetail researches I have determined that ground deer meat also makes good taco meat for tacos as well.

In an exploratory research I did last year the results showed that deer meat made pretty decent tamalies too.

In a wet or a dry year? If it is a dry year or the second dry year and they are branched then in my book that's genetics. Even in a dry year if there is a spike with spikes 4 or 5" long at 1.5 then he is probably in pretty good shape for the future. If it's a wet year and it's a spike he probably won't amount to much by the time he is 3.

Protein feeding in a dry year will possibly allow you to keep what you saw in the herd last year. Those 1.5 yo spikes are gonna be last in line for free choice protein in either type of year. Wet helps natural groceries and protein w/minerals just adds to it. (Amazing how many folks try to cut corners in a wet year on protein)

Out here, if you start murdering spikes in a dry year you are hurting your future.

Too many people cherry pick and use only what suits them on "management."

"Too many people cherry pick and use only what suits them on "management.""


That right there is a good point. A lot of time this occurs towards the end of the season when good bucks are hard to come by and some people start rationalizing their way into shooting a deer. Use the game cameras to pick and choose which bucks need to be killed and which ones need to be returning lettermen the following year and then stick to it.

But are you still seeing branch antler 1.5 yr olds in the same dry years?

Could the reason for this, not be that bucks are born late in the year as well as early in the year, even if it is dry and still have less of a time to feed their body?

Do we all agree that not every single doe is bred on the same day every year? Have I been imagining over the last 30 years that there are at least 3 stages to every rut?

Dry year. What percentage of the herds are spikes vs. branch antlered? I quite keeping records for lease hunters who don't show the least little bit of interest. But, an estimated guess based on what I've seen over the years would be probably 60 to 70%. Now that would be in a truly dry year where there weren't even any winter rains to speak of. A year where Spring rains a less than needed you might get 50%. But, in a year like that you won't see too many twins either A friend of mine has always told me the best time to cull a true cull is in a dry year. I agree if we are talking about something more than 1.5 yo deer. He manages a LF ranch south of you. He has shot spikes for the last 12 or 13 yrs now and is seeing less and less of them every year. I am familiar with your area and what protein can do for those deer. When I first started guiding I thought protein was a waste of money. But, year after year I could tell the difference in the deer. If I wouldn't have seen it actually work, I wouldn't be wasting time filling feeders for out of town folks. I have been feeding it for 20+ yrs also.
"Out here, if you start murdering spikes in a dry year you are hurting your future"- If spikes are not the majority of your 1.5 yr olds in dry years then how many bucks does the ranch need to have a harvestable number in the future? Depends on the ranch (lease size) and how much livestock the rancher throw on it during the year. Most ranchers don't over stock and rotate the livestock so that usually isn't the problem. The problems lie with the hunters and what the rancher mandates they can take. Some ranchers aren't real up on "deer management" like they are on livestock or still have "old school" ideas. Every lease has slightly different rules which quite often get bent or broken if a particularily nice looking young buck strolls out. I see a lot of stuff walking around with really screwed up racks that should have been culled years ago.

If date of birth of spikes were this issue then those areas that have ruts that are in Oct and fawns being born in April and May should not have any spikes then right? Then it must be from the dry time and lack of feed right? Well if in these early born fawns and those fawns born early in dry times, why do those same herds have yearling bucks with branch antlers? Is it birthdate, lack of feed or genetics? You tell me. If I am managing a herd of deer and I have branch antlered yearling bucks in a very dry time then those bucks are the ones I want in the herd because they have the genetics to grow the best antlers under the worst conditions.
Again if all those areas of the state that have early ruts and have good nutrition in them then why do they still have spikes if these young bucks are born in May? Born early and plenty of nutrition right? If in other areas of the state they have fawns born in August and these fawns as yearling bucks can still grow branch antlered first set of antlers, then why is it?Genetics? That is what I am managing for those bucks that can do their best in the worst of times. Under ideal conditions they will probably be much larger than their spike conterparts in antlers and as a percentage of the total number of bucks.

When managing you are playing a game of averages. You can only keep so many deer in the herd. When the glass is full and more coming in something has to go. Agree? I have always said that some spikes can and will become trophies and no doubt some will become big. But, that proverbial but, how many spikes do you have to keep to get that one trophy buck? Now how many branched antler bucks to do have to keep to get that trophy buck? The buck you described was born in a pen right? Pedigreed genetics? So you can say he was not born from a spike line sire right? His odds of being a better buck were better than most. Can you pick that spike out of the herd? I have like you witnessed a buck fawn born very late in the year have 9 points as a yearling and turn into a 200" 27" inside with 5 droptines. What does this prove? That he had more points than your spike and grew into a bigger deer? No it proved he was in the segment of yearling bucks that had branched antlers as yearlings. I think with branched antler yearling you will always get a higher percentage of larger bucks than there spike antlered yearling counterparts. When at or above carrying capacity or your the limits of your pocketbook then you have to remove deer and my experience has proven to me that spikes do not fit the program. I want to keep the segement of the yearlings that has the greatest chance to get me where I want to go.
Cull is in the definition of it and what the management goals are. We shoot 145" culls but do not call them that. We call the bucks that are genetically challenged. They make someone a really nice trophy. Why are they culled from the herd? They do not have the antler characterstics that we desire. Again it is because we can only keep so many mouths in the herd and need to take out the bottom of every age class that needs it to get to that number.
Again LF and HF are different but more of the size of the ranch is the issue more so than the fence height. Genetics will come into play at some point to reach your management goal. I have managed herds with keeping every spike in them to killing all the spikes in the herd. The quality of bucks when removing the spike factor has produced much better results for me. It may not for you.

Therein lies most of our answers. I killed a 147 5/8 deer year before last and in all likelihood it will be the biggest deer I will ever kill on our family owned place. You on the other hand are culling deer that I would consider a trophy. Even if we were managing ranches that butted up against each other, we would be in a different phase of management. You would be doing what you think is best for your herd and I would be doing what I think is best for my herd. We could take bits and pieces from each other and fine tune our own efforst, but unless what each of us are doing what we believe is what we need to be doing, we would not be doing what we think is right for us. In pricipal we all are taking information and working it into a plan that we think is best for us and our deer herds. Different land is going to require different techniques to get the best out the herd. It is a challenge and it is fun to do, but bottom line is what is right for you may not be right for me because of my location and other factors. At least we are all trying.

If date of birth of spikes were this issue then those areas that have ruts that are in Oct and fawns being born in April and May should not have any spikes then right? Then it must be from the dry time and lack of feed right? Well if in these early born fawns and those fawns born early in dry times, why do those same herds have yearling bucks with branch antlers? Is it birthdate, lack of feed or genetics? You tell me. If I am managing a herd of deer and I have branch antlered yearling bucks in a very dry time then those bucks are the ones I want in the herd because they have the genetics to grow the best antlers under the worst conditions.
Again if all those areas of the state that have early ruts and have good nutrition in them then why do they still have spikes if these young bucks are born in May? Born early and plenty of nutrition right? If in other areas of the state they have fawns born in August and these fawns as yearling bucks can still grow branch antlered first set of antlers, then why is it?Genetics? That is what I am managing for those bucks that can do their best in the worst of times. Under ideal conditions they will probably be much larger than their spike conterparts in antlers and as a percentage of the total number of bucks.

What's up guys.

Personally the gentic culling is probley the last thing most people should worry about and cc and age should be the first..

But if you just have to pull the trigger on bambi...call it something different then genetic culling..... I like the term browse management deer.... : )


Second rifleman on kerr and kroll....

I agree that if the fawns are weaned at to young of an age then they will likely be stunted in growth. I believe this is due to the lack of a mother and the lack of knowing were to go in stress times to find food. They are living on a corn diet at that point since it is free and they know where it is everyday at the same time. I noticed this on a Hill Country herd of deer and started to feed protein out of the corn feeders after the season was over and started to see less spikes. I do not think the same would compare to fawns born to a late bred doe and she stays with them all winter long. If that is so then every buck fawn born in deep south Texas were the rut is very late would be a spike when the doe is shot away from him.

But everytime you pull the trigger it is culling?

Hill country...IMO shows that herd numbers alone can make a bigger impact then any genetic culling ever could....it also a great place to show what happens after long term tuff genetic bambi hammering...very low mature buck numbers