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 Baiting rules for dove
#203818
08/23/07 04:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7
bartlebyTX
OP
Green Horn
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OP
Green Horn
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7 |
Looking for practical advice on this, not a cut and paste out of the Annual please. How far away from feeders do I need to be? Does anyone have real life stories about enforcement? I ask because I've been told over and over again that it's a gray area, since affecting flight paths is apparently enough to get in trouble...but my lease has feeders all over the place. Thanks for your help!
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: bartlebyTX]
#203819
08/23/07 09:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,103
kwrhuntinglab
"The Guardian"
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"The Guardian"
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 11,103 |
Contact the game warden for your area and ask.....that is the best advice right there, since that is who you would be dealing with if you got in trouble......
What others have dealt with may not be the apples to apples your looking for.....
Spend time with the ones you love. Time is not guaranteed.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: bartlebyTX]
#203820
08/23/07 09:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,552
JCB
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,552 |
The landowner of the lease I was on a few years ago was best freinds with the Game Warden and while talking to him he said that he could write you a ticket if you were hunting on a piece of property that had any baiting on it period. That includes deer feeders!
It does not matter if you are hunting 10 acers or 10,000 you can still get a ticket even if there is one feeder on it that is 2 miles away. Of course most wardens will use a little common sense when it comes to this issue, but by law they can write you a ticket for it if they want to.
If you are going to hunt a property that has feeders on it I would recommend hunting as far from them as you can.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: JCB]
#203821
08/23/07 10:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151
CritterGitter
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151 |
Well, you can be cited for any offense at any time. That doesn't mean that it will hold up in front of a judge.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: CritterGitter]
#203822
08/23/07 10:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,552
JCB
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
Well, you can be cited for any offense at any time. That doesn't mean that it will hold up in front of a judge.
I guess I could go along with that, but its a whole lot easier to get a ticket when you are breaking the law, and breaking the law is what he is trying to avoid.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: CritterGitter]
#203823
08/23/07 10:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,919
TreeBass
Old Weller
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Old Weller
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,919 |
Good advice in the posts above.. Our lease was right in the middle of a WMA, with game wardens all around us. They told us by the letter of the law, we could be cited, even with the feeders across the lease. But they take into consideration the circumstances of the lease and feeders..
Talk to them, they will be the best to answer your question
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: JCB]
#203824
08/23/07 10:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7
bartlebyTX
OP
Green Horn
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OP
Green Horn
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7 |
The warden I spoke to was very reasonable about this, and his response demonstrated to me that he clearly would be interested in enforcement based on the hunter's intent to bait. What worries me is that he also mentioned the possibility of federal enforcement since doves are migratory, and said they were known to be a bit more strict about it. So what's the penalty if you do get cited for this kind of thing? Sounds like a federal offense. If it's not worth it I won't even chance it and be missing out on dove season...I'll be shopping around for a different lease next year (one that's a bit more flexible with feeding programs to accomodate various game and bird seasons).
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: bartlebyTX]
#203825
08/23/07 10:39 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,919
TreeBass
Old Weller
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Old Weller
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 23,919 |
Hmm, interesting....its one of the reasons I have a separate lease for dove. Good luck
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: kwrhuntinglab]
#203826
08/23/07 10:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 16,464
txcornhusker
THF Celebrity
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Quote:
Contact the game warden for your area and ask.....that is the best advice right there, since that is who you would be dealing with if you got in trouble......
What others have dealt with may not be the apples to apples your looking for.....
Exactly! There is a lot of grey area for a reason. I called the Warden in our area about this exact thing. He told me how he enforces that law and from that we hunt accordingly(as stated above, he did mention the Fed. Warden as well). Just give him a call and see what he says. 
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: bartlebyTX]
#203827
08/23/07 10:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,552
JCB
THF Celebrity
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I have no idea what the penalty would be for something like that, or if it would be a federal offense. My guess is it could be since dove are migratory birds.
For the most part the wardens are not realy interested in writing tickets for deer feeder violations, but like I said they can if they want to. When it comes to baiting they are more interested in the people and outfitters that spread grain on the ground and then hunt over it. And by spreading grain I am talking about for the purpose of hunting and not for agraculture practices.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: JCB]
#203828
08/23/07 11:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,552
JCB
THF Celebrity
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One other side note:
When hunting dove you CANT do it from a motor vehicle, even if it is parked. This includes sitting on your tail gate or ATV.
This is a very common violation in early September. A lot of people like to park their truck in the shade and hunt off the tailgate but you CANT DO THAT and you WILL get a ticket for it. There is no grey area on that one.
I think the only exception to that law is for the disabled, but I would check just to be sure.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: bartlebyTX]
#203829
08/24/07 12:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,721
Txduckman
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You CAN hunt DOVE (not waterfowl or crane though) in the same area as you feed your cattle. Licks and blocks are not baiting. It says you can hunt as long as normal agricultural practices are followed. This is the rule from the link you posted above with some of the extra junk taken out since you aren't hunt crops: "A hunter MAY hunt any migratory game bird on or over lands or areas where seeds or grains have been scattered solely as a result of a normal agricultural practice except waterfowl and cranes may not be hunted where grain or other feed has been distributed or scattered as the result of livestock feeding" That is the law. They cannot change it or make it up. As for feeders, we always stay a few hundred yards away and never seen dove fly to one while hunting except in Jan during deer when nothing is left to eat. I have never seen a feeder attract doves to hunt except in times of no seed for them. And then you would get one shot and they would be gone if you were dumb enough to break the law. I guess way out in West Texas they could flock to them I suppose. And if you can see one 2 miles away one another property b/c the wheat field is on a ridge, I am baiting? No. Here is the official answer from U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service who sets the laws on how far from a feeder is legal. It is in the waterfowl section but is also in the Dove PDF below so same rules: "Distance How close to bait can you hunt without breaking the law? There is no set distance. The law prohibits hunting if bait is present that could lure or attract birds to, on, or over areas where hunters are attempting to take them. Distance will vary depending on the circumstances and such factors as topography, weather, and waterfowl flight patterns. Therefore, this question can only be answered on a case-by-case basis." Here is the website: http://www.fws.gov/le/HuntFish/waterfowl_baiting.htmhttp://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/Dove_hunting_baiting.pdfCase by case basis is the rule of thumb. So if your GW doesn't use common sense, then a feeder 5 miles away could be baiting if he finds corn in the gullet.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: Txduckman]
#203830
08/24/07 02:31 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7
bartlebyTX
OP
Green Horn
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OP
Green Horn
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7 |
Many thanks to all of you who replied, what a great resource this forum is...glad to have found it!
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: JCB]
#203831
08/24/07 03:20 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151
CritterGitter
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151 |
[quoteI guess I could go along with that, but its a whole lot easier to get a ticket when you are breaking the law, and breaking the law is what he is trying to avoid.
Uh, yeah...we know that. I was responding to the bit about a Warden who said that "he could write you a ticket if you were hunting on a piece of property that had any baiting on it period." My point was that law enforcement officers can write tickets based on what *their* understanding of the law is, even if it isn't correct. In other words, he can get a ticket even if you're doing nothing illegal, so interpreting the law based on what a cop (of any kind) tells you he can cite you for is not the most accurate route. It's likely the safest though, I'll grant you that.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: CritterGitter]
#203832
08/24/07 09:38 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44,585
RKHarm24
sergeant
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sergeant
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 44,585 |
Cop, Police, Deputy, Game Warden, are all Law Enforcement Officers.....They Enforce the written laws.PERIOD District Attorney/County Attorneys Office Prosecutes according to the written laws. Period The Judges Interpret the law as they see them....  BUT; Attorneys write the laws as Senators or Reps, Defend or Prosecute the laws they wrote and as a Judge they oversee Court according to the laws they wrote   
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: CritterGitter]
#203833
08/24/07 10:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,552
JCB
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,552 |
What ever you say Critter!
Here is a little tip for ya: From now on why dont you start reading the WHOLE post instead of picking someones post apart and trying to create a debate out of it. I see you do this all the time and it always turns into World War 3 and in the end you still have proved nothing except that you know how to call people names, and that you are real good at using the little quote button.
So here is your chance to break another post down into a million little quotes, and then add your comentary to each little one.
I am not going to get suckered into a pissin contest with you over something so stupid, so I am going to use the ignore feature and not even give you the pleasure of reading your comeback to this post.
Some may think I am over reacting to his comments, and for those that think so I would encourage you to go take a look at some of the many other threads that he has started a fire in by making comments just like the ones above.
You love to argue Critter, and you love to always be right even when you are wrong, so here is your chance to get in the last word and prove that you know everything about everything. Now go ahead and twist all of this around and prove to everyone that I am the complete idiot and you are gods gift to knowledge.
Take it away Critter!
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: JCB]
#203834
08/24/07 11:53 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,550
kyotee1
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,550 |
How strict are the feds on migratory birds and a vilation that is cited, especially when baiting is concerned, they will confiscate your shotgun, hunting license, vehicle, etc. since baiting is one area they DO NOT take lightly to. This happened to a couple guys that went to a neighboring high school and they WERE hunting their deer lease with feeders going, approximately 200-300 yards away. They were told by other members on their lease NOT to dove hunt since the federal wardens had been by a few times and made sure they made all attempts to have NO GRAIN on the ground along with a 10 day waiting period to start dove hunting. Both of them lost their shotguns and trucks along with losing the priviledge to hunt for 5 years in any state! I would really re-think hunting close or anywhere near a deer feeder unless you stop its feeding, make sure all grain is absent and then after a 10 day waiting period.
Better to be safe than sorry...
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: RKHarm24]
#203835
08/24/07 01:28 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,056
HWY_MAN
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,056 |
Quote:
District Attorney/County Attorneys Office Prosecutes according to the written laws. Period
Exactly.
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: JCB]
#203836
08/24/07 02:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151
CritterGitter
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151 |
Quote:
What ever you say Critter!
Spoken like a petulant 12 year-old.
Quote:
Here is a little tip for ya: From now on why dont you start reading the WHOLE post instead of picking someones post apart and trying to create a debate out of it.
Here's a little tip for YOU. Try reading...period. I quoted your ENTIRE post when responding, Einstein.
Quote:
I see you do this all the time and it always turns into World War 3 and in the end you still have proved nothing except that you know how to call people names
I can see how someone with your lack of literacy skills would miss the points that are made. Furthermore, the only one who tried to make an argument out of this was you. I just made a comment about cops writing tickets.
Quote:
, and that you are real good at using the little quote button.
Someone being good at something you can't figure out really gets to you, doesn't it?
Quote:
So here is your chance to break another post down into a million little quotes, and then add your comentary to each little one.
Let me explain something to you (and I'll do it like I'm talking to a child, since it appears that's who I'm dealing with):
When responding to a series of statements it makes sense to do so on a point-by-point basis, since that makes it clear and unambiguous exactly what is being responded to. If you can't handle an intelligent, rational approach to dialog then I recommend you stick to speaking to people who are more at your level. Your local grade school might be a good place to start.
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I am not going to get suckered into a pissin contest with you over something so stupid
You can't get suckered into something that you started to begin with.
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so I am going to use the ignore feature and not even give you the pleasure of reading your comeback to this post.
So you're a coward too. Great.
Quote:
Some may think I am over reacting to his comments, and for those that think so I would encourage you to go take a look at some of the many other threads that he has started a fire in by making comments just like the ones above.
What fire? I made a simple assertion about the law. For some reason that caused you to get your panties in a wad.
Quote:
You love to argue Critter, and you love to always be right even when you are wrong
Well, no. I do like to be right (which is different from proving that you're right), since the alternative is not knowing what the hell you're talking about. I see that's your preferred position.
Quote:
so here is your chance to get in the last word and prove that you know everything about everything.
Now go ahead and twist all of this around and prove to everyone that I am the complete idiot and you are gods gift to knowledge.
Take it away Critter!
Grow up.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: RKHarm24]
#203837
08/24/07 02:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151
CritterGitter
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 151 |
Quote:
Cop, Police, Deputy, Game Warden, are all Law Enforcement Officers.....They Enforce the written laws.PERIOD
District Attorney/County Attorneys Office Prosecutes according to the written laws. Period
The Judges Interpret the law as they see them....
BUT; Attorneys write the laws as Senators or Reps, Defend or Prosecute the laws they wrote and as a Judge they oversee Court according to the laws they wrote
OK. What does all of that have to do with what I said?
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: kyotee1]
#203838
08/24/07 04:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,721
Txduckman
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,721 |
Quote:
How strict are the feds on migratory birds and a vilation that is cited, especially when baiting is concerned, they will confiscate your shotgun, hunting license, vehicle, etc. since baiting is one area they DO NOT take lightly to. This happened to a couple guys that went to a neighboring high school and they WERE hunting their deer lease with feeders going, approximately 200-300 yards away. They were told by other members on their lease NOT to dove hunt since the federal wardens had been by a few times and made sure they made all attempts to have NO GRAIN on the ground along with a 10 day waiting period to start dove hunting. Both of them lost their shotguns and trucks along with losing the priviledge to hunt for 5 years in any state! I would really re-think hunting close or anywhere near a deer feeder unless you stop its feeding, make sure all grain is absent and then after a 10 day waiting period.
Better to be safe than sorry...
We missing some details though. The birds must have been going to those feeders to eat and they were hunting those birds. The grain in those feeders must have been small enough for a dove to digest. They cannot eat whole kernal so did they put milo or chicken scratch in the feeders? Your neighbor could have a milo feeder 200 or even 50 yards away and you would never know it. There are dove leases in West Texas with 300 acres of sunflowers and the neighbor has a feeder. Game warden never cared when 50 guys were hunting the field. Birds were clearly eating 300 acres of sunflowers and not whole kernal corn if that is what was in there.
Bottom line is if you are doing something wrong and someone else knows you are, then you can get in trouble. Sounds like there was clear baiting going on in that situation plus they were in high school... Maybe threw milo everywhere as well and the feds knew it.
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: Txduckman]
#203839
08/24/07 05:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,124
WhiskeyandMe
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,124 |
Wheat is the best way to bait for doves...
You find wheat and you find doves!
Also Cotton Seed...is a good place to find doves...
But then again, are they??????????????
Things that make you go ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
LOL...
J.J.
Looking for a Deer, Dove, Duck, Crow, Goose, Hog, or Turkey Hunt? Check us out! www.kentoutdoors.com
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Re: Baiting rules for dove
[Re: WhiskeyandMe]
#203840
08/24/07 05:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,868
atascosa_red
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,868 |
I have killed many a dove that had a craw full of whole kernal corn!!
IMPEACH!! IMPEACH!! REVOLT!! REVOLT!! REVOLTING!! REVOLTING!!
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