Because outta box groups arent good enough to even discuss. All I know is there must be some world class shooters on this forum with all the .5 groups and less with factory loaded ammo. I personally think there is no difference in the groups out of either rifle from the box. And then u take ammo and optics into play and gets even worse. Both rifles can be bought for close to same money, so why not buy the one that has more value later?

Brunetts fo me!

she sure is

I am with JCB brunettes and dodge trucks

I really believe there is several gun companys that makes rifles that will shoot better than the shooter behind it, some may take your high end rifles BMD and shoot 1.5" groups. its not always the rifle but the person squeezing the trigger.

I did not miss, I was out of adjustment on my scope. Which I've since fixed.

I agree but I also know that .001 difference in oal can be the difference in 1" and .5" so all these .5". Shooters with outta box rifles and factory ammo missed their calling as true champion bench shooters

LOL

I am fully aware that there are several other companies helping fighting the war right now. My post was simply stating that most all of the sniper rifles started from the 700 just like they have been for years. Go over to snipers hide and start this topic and see what answers you get.

I own both rifle brands (Remington and Savage), and I enjoy shooting them both.

I can get it out of 4 with factory ammo, but it took some tinkerin' with the BOSS(s) on them....and should get another rifle in soon and it WILL shoot better than that, or I will be ticked!!

I've seen a ton of MOA rifles, but have met few that can shoot MOA.

Well that sux now browning boss rifles are better than a remington too.

negative, I don't turn my nose up at gifts, but the SSs both shoot .5 out of the box, the eclipse will almost shoot 1 hole and I lucked out on the VG1 and it will group a little under .5..luckily. Got another 257wby coming in and dies and it is going to shoot well...however any trip planned where a decent amt of money is involved, the AWR is on standby and I repo the XCR from my wife.

Good luck with that.

Is there any rifle that's better than a remington out of the box?

Yes......Savage and Stevens. But dont take my word for it......read this whole thread and you will see for yourself.

lol

would be easy to do when she's 350 miles away

A person who puts a rifle in a vice and squeezes the trigger has only demonstrated that the rifle shoots MOA, not the shooter. Some people confuse the two. I often wonder exactly how people shot the groups they post. Vice? Bench with front support? With both front and rear support? Mechanical rear support, bean bag, or hand? Improvised front support like a gear bag? Bi-pod? Prone? There are so many variables. Shooting one MOA group in a whole day, or every third group, is not the same as being able to shoot MOA.

As far as hunting is concerned, the only question is where did that first cold-barrel shot wind up. As still hunting has become nearly extinct in certain parts of the world, people are beginning to equate the shooting part of "hunting" with "bench shooting." That's because the only shooting part of hunting some people will ever know is simply shooting a rifle resting on a box blind window ledge. Fewer and fewer people practice shooting from any position other than seated.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm reading hunting forums or bench shooting forums. MOA accuracy is so far beyond what is required to deliver a mortal wound to a deer that the topic should be dismissed to off-topic. I'd like to see less paper and hear more stories about dropping to one knee while flipping open the scope cover to make a passing shot on a deer that popped out while on the way to the stand. Way more huntin' and shootin' in that kind of story than loose change next to holes in paper.

Seeing that you are planning to buy a gun that keeps it resale value and are thinking of sinkning money into it to be something it is not out of the box, why not just go ahead and buy a nice Sako instead?

+1. If you're on a budget, buy a cheap rifle and spent the most of what you have on the scope that goes on top of it. Being able to see what you're shooting at diminishing light is way more important than whether it's 1" or 0.5" off the target (at 100 yards exact).

If the price difference to move into a slightly better (?) rifle is great enough for you to move from Zeiss scope down to Bushnell, buy the cheaper rifle!

MOA matters for those not just taking pop shots at deer @ 100yds.

Respectfully disagree. Depends on the place, distance and choice of shot placement if the goal is to drop them where they stand. To borrow a phrase from Glen Zediker and David Tubb, improving the accuracy of a rifle "makes the target bigger."

Having said that, a 1 MOA or less group right on the bullseye is much more useful than a 1/2 MOA group that is 3 MOA away from the center of the target, which is a problem with the shooter rather than the rifle.

To the original issue, having owned one Savage, seen several shot, and owning several R700's and seen many, many shot, either will work just fine for most people in most conditions. Pick whichever feels better to you and then practice consistently year round. If whatever you have will not shoot accurately, trade it until you find one that will and then hang onto it and practice some more. More important is to spend money on a good scope, lots of ammo for practice and even some professional instruction.

Good luck with whichever you choose.