looking to get a gen 1 night vision that wont break the bank. does anyone have any experience with the gen 1 stuff??

They're not worth the money you're going to waste on them.


Check out TNVC and they will take care of you with stuff that WORKS. It won't be cheap (in the 2-2500 dollar range) but short of actual US military issue grade stuff they make the best out there.

Avoid ATN like the plague, they use Chinese and Russian tubes and their QC is to put it nicely "craptacular".

If you like radiation being aimed directly at your eye without any of the proper shielding, feel free to buy from ATN.

I don't have NV yet, but I wouldn't buy gen 1, a decent scope and a light is a better option

I agree, and have stuff from TNVC. They actually sell stuff thats better than what most troops get.

I just bought a M845 mk 4 from them, its awesome.

There are lots of low cost options in Gen 3 that can get close to the Gen 1 price. The Gen 2 M845 scope Dallas Shooting Supplies was talking about is for sale here in Texas but at about $400 cheaper than TNVC. $1200 would be the bottom end of US made Gen 3 in a quality monocular. At that price your not going to get a very pretty tube but it still beats the older generations. The Gen 1 and a lot of the Gen 2 devices don't have enough gain to produce an image when you get out in the darker nights. Let me know if you want to look through anything- I help lots of folks figure out what they want and where to get it. Low cost NV is hard to get into without making some expensive mistakes.


Karma

Troops are issued PVS-14s, current Gen III+, or better (having used them, as well as the older and newer stuff).

If they're lucky they get PVS-15s, or ANVIS 9's.

Snipers tend to run PVS-22, 24 and 27s with magnified optics.

TNVC's stuff is solid and "about" as good, but i wouldn't call it superior, they don't have access to firstline tubes, they get the extras from the main manufacturers after gov't contracts from what I understand.

Victor Six-

I wasn't clear enough in my post, sorry. The off brand, low cost stuff you see on Craigslist or some optics place is typically junk than doesn't help the hunter very much when they jump in the NV/hog hunting/varmit night hunting. We hunt with PVS-14's PVS-15's ANVIS-9's PVS-22's UNS-SR's, thermal imaging etc, etc...
Myself and my friends/coworkers used to work for companies and actually manufacture the military NV and thermal systems. I don't use or recommend anything that isn't Gen 3 because the performance so much better than the previous generations. What I was saying in my post was that NV purchases on the internet are tough to make because there is so much cheap junk out there- dealers like TNVC that have good reputations sell quality gear- but since they are second tier middlemen (buying from places like Night Vision Depot Aurora Tactical)-they tack on their profit and put a pretty website together. I think charging people extra $1000(in some cases)to put a label on a box is steep and all the same equipment can be bought here in Texas from people who are willing to let you look through it first. Additionally, there are some extremely high quality systems that still use the US gen 3 tubes that are in military systems use and they further reduce the cost for the hunter who typically isn't going to spend $3.5K to $12K on an optic but wants find something with that or similar performance.

I'll post some pics ups here or on a new thread to explain what i'm preaching here- in NV pictures are worth a thousand words..

Karma

Hey guys.... Karma knows his stuff. I have known him for over 20 years and he has helped me with every one of my AR and night vision builds/projects. He has it all... everything from NV to Thermal and they also manufacture suppressors at their shop that are second to none. If you need laser engraving on your lowers for your Class 3 stuff... they have the lasers at their shop to do it as well.

If you are serious about NV you really do owe it to yourself to give them a ring before you drop some serious coin at the other shops out there. They have it all laid out for you to come look at first so you can see what you are getting and will walk you through it all. Good people all the way around

Hey Greg!

Thanks for the comments- Rather than just selling NV my company and friends know a large group of people in the industry and no matter where you buy, I hate to see people throw down good money for something that
a) may not be what they need and
b) pay a premium because they didd't know where to look.

We have helped a lot of folks find what they are looking for- even if we don't sell it. People come by our place in Rockwall on Tuesdays and Thursday nights just to learn about NV and thats half the fun.. If any of you guys are interested in NV or have any questions about something you found for sale feel free to ask me on here or PM me. I am not brand loyal to anyone- if its junk, state of the art, or old stuff that still works well i'll give you my two cents on it. If it is junk I can explain why- budgets don't always allow for multi-thousand military grade dollar optics and we have spent years buying expensive and less expensive NV/thermal to compare and test. Hunting is our passion and if it works well then we approve.

Karma,

Ya'll got a webiste with pics, prices, and details? I'll be in the market for a monocular that attaches to the day scope.

Here is an idea of the units we hunt with and sell- somehow I left the usual PVS-14 out of the picture..



The pic is of various NV and thermal units- some we assemble, some manufacture. In this picture, the systems range from low cost to expensive and depending on the NV tubes (all Gen 3) or the thermal core the cost moves up and down. This thread was asking about Gen 1 NV and the system I was thinking of is in the pic- the two monoculars on the lower right. They are made in the US by a very high quality manufacturer with performance that matches the US military issued PVS-14. For the extremely low cost Gen 3 we sell the kit would be this housing with a C grade blem tube- its going to have spots and specs but thats the cost savings- at least you can still see when there is very little light (very little moon or clouds- something that the Gen 1 and Gen 2 either won't or at best struggles with) What's nice is when people come out they get to look through the very best NV you can buy and compare with the low cost devices we work with and then compare to the low grade Russian/import NV that so many people fall for on the internet. $1100 is about where you start with these systems....

I will post more pics including NV pics tomorrow.

Karma

Karma,

Post some pics of the belt feed stuff!! LOL

Im gonna get with Q and see about running another SBR batch soon through you. Is that thermal housing the same as Q's?

Still kicking myself for missing out on that L3 deal. Dangit.

BTW, anyone wanting to know about nightvision, ask Karma. He knows his stuff.

Karma I sent you a PM if you are playing with the NV tomorrow Tuesday I would like to come check it out. This may be my Xmass present this year if I can find something that works for the right price!

Come on out- we work late on days that start with a T! Anyone else is welcome as well, just let me know your coming, our shop is in Rockwall.

Karma do yah do any maintenance on NV and Thermals?

Well I went out and met Karma tonight at his shop. I learned more in 30 minutes about night vision with him than I have in months of researching on the net. It was so nice to be able to look through all the different grade tubes, and all the different housings right there together. For my needs (killing hogs and coyotes) The blemishes or spots will not be a problem. From the pictures I had seen on the net I wouldn't have belelived this to be true. It's also so nice to be able to deal with someone locally, and that uses them for the same purpose. I highly recommend driving over to meet him and play with his equipment it will save you time and $$$.

TxKiller-

Yes we do, depending on the type of unit. PM me or feel free to call.

Texaslawman-

It was nice to meet you and I am glad you enjoyed looking at the different types of gear. I can post every picture on my server and its still not as good of an example as looking through the systems with your own eyes.

Karma
Jason@identmarking.com
9729744290

Karma as of right now I have two guys coming out next Tuesday to look at everything. And I'm pretty sure I will be buying mine then!

Karma makes a good suppressor as well.

Me shooting an ident

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNgUIi3wJ5k

Well Christmas came early I got a PVS-14 from Karma last night thanks to my Lady. Karma even went out and got a gen 1 unit that I was originally going to buy so I could see the difference. It was like night and day between the two. He really goes the extra step in showing you everything and making sure you know and are happy with what you are getting. I'm so glad I found this thread I would have put down money on that gen1 and been very disappointed. Only drawback is I stayed up all last night playing and now I'm dragging but it was worth it!