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Cull and spikes...
#1822693
11/11/10 12:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 97
Buckshot_Burton
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 97 |
Im really starting to think that half the hunters I meet or see dont know the difference between a spike and a Cull buck. I was walking through syracuse sunday night after dropping off my deer and saw all the LITTLE first year spikes and it seriously broke my heart. I honestly think there needs to be a class about this.
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Buckshot_Burton]
#1822781
11/11/10 01:04 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 990
gary75758
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 990 |
Majority of the "spike" buck I saw hanging at the processor were young bucks that the hunters should have passed on. Not sure this is going to help my AR county....
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Buckshot_Burton]
#1822973
11/11/10 01:49 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 169
Michael Rosamond
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 169 |
Im really starting to think that half the hunters I meet or see dont know the difference between a spike and a Cull buck. I was walking through syracuse sunday night after dropping off my deer and saw all the LITTLE first year spikes and it seriously broke my heart. I honestly think there needs to be a class about this. I'm going to bet that half the hunters out there don't care if it is a first year spike or a cull. The are at the processor and that's what they care about. I'm all for shooting does instead of young bucks but this obsessive need to hunt antlers is ruining this sport and making an [censored] out of a lot of us.
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Michael Rosamond]
#1822984
11/11/10 01:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,483
jim1961
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,483 |
I really wish the state would at least impose a length minimum on spikes because so many hunters either don't care or don't know the difference between a yearling and a cull
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: jim1961]
#1823091
11/11/10 02:17 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,251
Paluxy300blk
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,251 |
Please share your best advice on determining the difference, for someone who is fairly new at AR's and how to best decide whether or not a spike should be culled or not.
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Paluxy300blk]
#1823431
11/11/10 03:30 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,267
Sirrah243
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,267 |
I go by body size for the most part 2 1/2 yrs. have more bulk and the size of their heads look large for their thin necks. The only real way to know after the shot is to check the teeth.
�A hunt based only on the trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.� -Fred Bear
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Paluxy300blk]
#1823504
11/11/10 03:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,172
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,172 |
Please share your best advice on determining the difference, for someone who is fairly new at AR's and how to best decide whether or not a spike should be culled or not. in a nutshell: if the deer looks like a doe with two little spikes, let it walk. if the deer has more bulk to it and the spikes are around 6 or more inches long, lay down the hammer.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: txtrophy85]
#1824065
11/11/10 01:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,124
LandPirate
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,124 |
The problem is that so many people hear "Once a spike, always a spike"...which of course is total BS but you can't tell them that. Their daddy told 'em that, their grandpa told 'em that, their buddies all told 'em that so it's gotta be true.
All I can say is don't shoot young deer. Unfortunately too many don't care. They just want to kill something. Anything.
Mike Buda, Tx Hunt near Freer
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Buckshot_Burton]
#1824215
11/11/10 02:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044
Eland Slayer
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044 |
Im really starting to think that half the hunters I meet or see dont know the difference between a spike and a Cull buck. I was walking through syracuse sunday night after dropping off my deer and saw all the LITTLE first year spikes and it seriously broke my heart. I honestly think there needs to be a class about this. I'm right there with ya bud.....but unfortunately, TPWD will not do anything about it. They are the ones preaching about how it's such great "management" to shoot all spikes, regardless of age (yes, they even advocate shooting yearling spikes). We are also dealing with this issue first-hand right now..... We joined a lease in the hill country (Mason County) and this is our first year there. My dad and I have 2 of the 11 total memberships for the 1,340 acre ranch. It is in a very high deer density area, and we recieved 75 doe permits and 45 buck permits for this year (we are on the MLD level 3 program). 11 of the buck permits are to be saved for our "trophy bucks" (one per member), and the rest are for "culls". Well that sounds all fine and dandy until you realize what is being shot. So far this year, there have been 22 "cull" bucks taken, but 19 of those are yearling spikes or 3-pointers. Makes me want to puke. I've tried talking to the other guys on the lease, but they all believe what our biologist tells them is the gospel truth.....and he says shoot EVERY spike you see. He will even give us more buck permits to shoot spikes if we run out. I did shoot a legitimate cull this past weekend, which was a 6.5 year old buck with no browtines and a strange looking rack.....but besides him, only 2 other actual culls were taken. The rest were just babies that never got a chance to grow.....
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Eland Slayer]
#1824224
11/11/10 02:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044
Eland Slayer
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044 |
Not only does shooting spikes not make any sense regarding "genetics".....but it can completely screw up your age structure of a herd.
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Eland Slayer]
#1824254
11/11/10 02:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,416
crash700
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,416 |
I think it is unfortunate when people shoot really young deer. I believe that wait until the deer has some weight on it and at least 6" horns. If it hasn't branched out by then, take it out. One of the guys I hunt with shot a nubbin buck, I was livid. He said he thought it was a doe a the horns hadn't broke the skin. I asked him why would you shoot something so small ? He had no real answer. Its irritating.
Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Eland Slayer]
#1824269
11/11/10 02:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,172
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,172 |
people think biologists word is gospel.
i've seen biologists do some strange things......like stick a 130 inch 8 point in a DMP pen because "thats the biggest deer he found that day"
i believe, that on certain ranches that are extreemly managed, that you can cull yearlings, but those make up exactly 1% of the ranches in the state.
a yearling spike may have been born late, had a rough go of things early in his life, etc. kinda like the scrawny kid who grew up to be a 6'2 inch football star.
in all my years of hunting, I've really only seen a few cowhorn spikes, i've shot a few fork horn 2 year olds, but by and large, even when we have a majority spikes and 3 points for our yearling herd, the next year our 2 year olds are sporting 8 points for the most part
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: jim1961]
#1824347
11/11/10 03:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
Im really starting to think that half the hunters I meet or see dont know the difference between a spike and a Cull buck. I was walking through syracuse sunday night after dropping off my deer and saw all the LITTLE first year spikes and it seriously broke my heart. I honestly think there needs to be a class about this. Who would you like to put the class on The Pro-Kill-Spike researchers or the Anti-Kill-Spike Researchers? I really wish the state would at least impose a length minimum on spikes because so many hunters either don't care or don't know the difference between a yearling and a cull Oh dear Lord No!! Not another judging-of-length regulation. Well....on second thought, Since a tape measure is required equipment now to go out and deer hunt. Nah.
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change? TPWD
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: txtrophy85]
#1824353
11/11/10 03:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044
Eland Slayer
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044 |
in all my years of hunting, I've really only seen a few cowhorn spikes... Same here. In fact....I can only remember seeing one. It was a very obvious 3.5 year old buck with spikes over a foot long and probably 4" bases. It was one week before season opened and nobody ever saw him during the season.
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: txtrophy85]
#1824356
11/11/10 03:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,658
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,658 |
Im really starting to think that half the hunters I meet or see dont know the difference between a spike and a Cull buck. I was walking through syracuse sunday night after dropping off my deer and saw all the LITTLE first year spikes and it seriously broke my heart. I honestly think there needs to be a class about this. I got to say that alot (not all) of the hunters I meet dont know the difference between their but and a hole in the ground. One of the guys started reading up on deer management and came to camp talkin about "skull" bucks that will never amount to much... Maybe the guys I hunted with are just slow. matt
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Eland Slayer]
#1824372
11/11/10 03:16 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,839
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,839 |
On 99 percent of the ranches in Texas a Spike is a 1.5 year old deer or younger that no one in the world can tell you what he is going to be at 5.5 also a cull is nothing more then the biggest deer that you can shoot with out counting toward your trophy buck... under the false pretention you are improving the genetics of the herd.
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: redchevy]
#1824380
11/11/10 03:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,839
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,839 |
Im really starting to think that half the hunters I meet or see dont know the difference between a spike and a Cull buck. I was walking through syracuse sunday night after dropping off my deer and saw all the LITTLE first year spikes and it seriously broke my heart. I honestly think there needs to be a class about this. I got to say that alot (not all) of the hunters I meet dont know the difference between their but and a hole in the ground. One of the guys started reading up on deer management and came to camp talkin about "skull" bucks that will never amount to much... Maybe the guys I hunted with are just slow. matt now thats FUNNY!!! But you have to give him some credit, atleast he is learning the benefits of not being brown and its down
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Eland Slayer]
#1824400
11/11/10 03:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,179
CBHunter
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,179 |
Not only does shooting spikes not make any sense regarding "genetics".....but it can completely screw up your age structure of a herd. Bingo. Let's shoot all our yearlings, so in 4-5 years we have no mature bucks. Makes perfect sense. There are some years we see lots of spikes on our lease. That usually coincides with a drought. Never seen a 2.5+ spike on our lease.
My wife's only thing is it can't stare at her when she is eating or sleeping!
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: CBHunter]
#1824431
11/11/10 03:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,355
Bowtech1233
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,355 |
The problem is "hunters" that have no clue on how to age a deer...
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: redchevy]
#1824490
11/11/10 03:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,172
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,172 |
Im really starting to think that half the hunters I meet or see dont know the difference between a spike and a Cull buck. I was walking through syracuse sunday night after dropping off my deer and saw all the LITTLE first year spikes and it seriously broke my heart. I honestly think there needs to be a class about this. . One of the guys started reading up on deer management and came to camp talkin about "skull" bucks that will never amount to much. matt never heard that one, but a bunch of the arm chair biologists kids i went to school with were swapping pics with each other with the caption "Coal buck, agua dolce, 2006"
Last edited by txtrophy85; 11/11/10 03:46 PM.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: txtrophy85]
#1824681
11/11/10 04:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044
Eland Slayer
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,044 |
Im really starting to think that half the hunters I meet or see dont know the difference between a spike and a Cull buck. I was walking through syracuse sunday night after dropping off my deer and saw all the LITTLE first year spikes and it seriously broke my heart. I honestly think there needs to be a class about this. . One of the guys started reading up on deer management and came to camp talkin about "skull" bucks that will never amount to much. matt never heard that one, but a bunch of the arm chair biologists kids i went to school with were swapping pics with each other with the caption "Coal buck, agua dolce, 2006" HAHA!! I'm sure you'll agree....the deer management "scene" can be quite a scary place. lol
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Michael Rosamond]
#1824930
11/11/10 05:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220
PHishTX
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,220 |
That is a 5%'r
Or now it is a 4%'r ? Since their last data scrubbing.
"If age structure is deemed to be valuable to management,...What percentage change in age structure or condition does TPWD recognize that it needs to detect in order to trigger a regulatory change? TPWD
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Michael Rosamond]
#1824942
11/11/10 05:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,172
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 32,172 |
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Cull and spikes...
[Re: Paluxy300blk]
#1825809
11/11/10 10:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,863
Texan Til I Die
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,863 |
Please share your best advice on determining the difference, for someone who is fairly new at AR's and how to best decide whether or not a spike should be culled or not. If you're not sure, the best thing is to just not shoot them, unless of course you're just after meat and then any deer will do. If you do decide you need to shoot a spike, but you're unsure how old it is, compare it's body size to the grown does. If he's 2.5 or older, he'll be a lot bigger than any of the does. If he's about the same size as the does, 99.99% of the time he'll be a young deer with his first set of antlers. Shooting him probably won't accomplish much (other than getting some nice backstrap), and it may in fact be detrimental in the long run.
Silver spurs and gold tequila keep me hanging on. Pretty girls and old cantinas give me shelter from the storm.
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