Ditto the coat-tail thing...

Let my try to illustrate the 'slippery slope' thing again for Redneck Hunter and JayJ and others who don't understand why this is bad..

Let's go down the 'safety' road for a minute. First let me point out that we've lost a lot of rights in this country in the name of safety and security! Anyway, BEFORE I digress.. Take the example of the landowner who crams hunters onto a lease-y'know, a hunter for every 100ac or less. Now think about the fact that those guys are probably all using 'high powered' rifles. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that people are in danger in situations like that. I won't hunt a lease like that and also feel that all the parties involved on that type of operation are either blindly ignorant or reckless. SO-should I go to Austin and submit a proposal that the state regulate the number of parties on a lease by the size of the parcel of land? In a laughing way I'm thinking 'yeah, probably'! HOWEVER, that issue can easily be rectified by the owners and the lessees. I seriously doubt any of you landowners would want the state cutting into your ability to make money from your land by telling you that you can only have 'X' number of people hunting at any one time. In fact, if you don't have a large parcel of land it just MIGHT put you out of the hunting biz.

So would it end there? ABSOLUTELY NOT! All the safety conscious parties and legislators would then say, 'well, if that applies to the individual properties, then there should be some way to guarantee that within any given county there could only be 'X' number of hunters per every 'X' number of acres... Lot's of people would be out of luck for leasing, and I bet some small parcel landowners would just go ahead and sell to the big ranch next door.

What I'm trying to say here is that to ask for legislation of this type is opening the door to extensive limitations to our hunting rights. Don't believe me? Do some research on England and it's hunting laws. Only the rich can afford to hunt over there.

Y'all need to see the larger picture here instead of living in your own little world where you can't see past the guy sitting on the other side of your fence!

Not wanting to seem like I am taking sides or jumping all over a person, but as JB put it, legislators never try to pass straight forward common sense laws. They always go to far. Remember here just a short while back, a topic TheHag started about, the guy from the metromess, that had introduced a bill in the house about animal cruelty. If I remember right, that bill deemed hunting and fishing as acts of cruelty, along with rodent control in your home. If your neighbors can't be convinced thru common courtesy to stop hunting on /over the fence, then start doing stuff like TheHag and some others have mentioned. But, as JB said , once you get our elected officials involved, you will end up with a lot of stuff you don't need or want.

DEER HUNTING IS A BUSINESS...now anyway......BUT IT IS!

Ok, first this an then the antler restrictions on the states deer, but what you can shoot and cannot shoot on your land (withing bag limit) as well as where you can put stands and feeders. NO. As we have seen, some folks have small tracts of land, etc....but hey, my deer are expensive..I do not want my neighbor shooting them....THEN PUT UP A HIGH FENCE! Deer roam, they are nomadic.

This may not be the right topic, but here it goes. First they tell us what size deer to shoot, ok in some areas where they are trying to build a deer herd....but not for areas where a deer heard is already established..come on...Lets see, big deer areas? S. Texas, Panhandle, West Texas, Throckmorton/Shackleford Co. and you get the occasional big deer from central, east, hill country etc...but a big deer is just that and can be anywhere he wants to be, right? So, set restrictions.....on what can be harvested...NO....It is about one thing and one thing only. GENETICS, GENETICS, GENETICS....feeding protein does not do you one bit of good for deer on the hoof right now, it is this years fawn crops offspring where a protein plan will have the most effect...The protein is not going to make that 4 1/2 year old 8 point with 20 inch inside and 135 BC go over 145 and over 150 in the next two years as a 10 pt...that we know. But lets look at as the business it is. $3500, 5 day hunt, 150 or better plus trophy fee.....yeah, if you pay $2000 a year for a lease, then you have probably spent that much on gas, corn, etc.....to go all season, but that is the fun...go when you want, not a 5 day period right? Nope, you tell many corporate folks that they can take clients for $3500 min plus trophy fee and get a 150 or better and they are going to do it. But how many big corporations do that? Are there enough in the US and Texas to make the deer heard all solid animals that will score well? No..Eventually, the avg price will creep up so high, it will be a weekend maybe two or 5 day hunts is all you are going to get unless you own the land. Maybe not in my lifetime, but my stepsons and his family and your kids and grandkids. I do not fault the ranchers for wanting to make money, heck deer hunting is big business and in some areas better then the cattle industry. There will come a time that a lot of ranches have these great deer herds, but not all of them can be hunting as the supply will outweigh the demand, thus prices will drop, but not in my lifetime. If the state gets involved in the deer antler restrictions in certain counties like Bosque, etc...then the deer herd there will suffer in the long run, sure there are great deer down there, but all of those little bucks, the young bucks that will just be nice basket 8's are not going to get better to where you would want to shoot them year in and year out, but your child might want to, your grandkids might want to, your friend might want to, but it is all about genetics and the genetics are not in place in lots of areas of the state...So, are they going to bring deer in, breeders? Price to hunt just went up.

Where I hunt in S. Texas we were weak on the 2 1/2 year old 8 or less points this year, it was if they had 8 or less, they dropped in their tracks...but there is protein feeding program in place, 200 inch buck is serving as a stud buck to 15 does right now, two buck fawns out of a 300 inch deer will be ready next year, two doe fawns out of a 300 inch deer will be ready next year as well, but this is what money and lots of it does.....not mine, but the ranch owner...this is his dream. I am not going to fault him for doing what he wants on the land he bought, etc...I am fortunate enough to be a good friend and put many hours of sweat equity to hunt there. Will I shoot a buck over 150 to 170 every year...No, will he...probably...Will I shoot a few..Yes..Will he sell some hunts for $15,000 for 170 or better...darn right....he has three folks interested as soon as the ranch is ready....is this a canned hunt...NOPE...not on 3600 acres it is not. Are there stands and feeders around his high fence.....yep,,,but they do not shoot thru the fence...we would know quickly!

The place where I hunt in Young Co...do we have stand on the fence..yep! 10 yards away, and the feeder is about 40 yards away and does not face their property...Why....because we have three sendaros, two on the fenceline going each way and one at a 90 degree from it...Why, cause it comes off the base of a hill into a draw..it is a funnel..I have seen deer jump our fence and go to the other place...then deer come from that place to ours...That stand has been there for 15 years...is the state going to reimburse us or pay for us to move it? Cause it will take an act of GOD to get it moved, it is all steel.

Hunting is for everybody, though some cannot afford to do it anymore...price wise. When I was a kid we paid $350 for a year round lease and enjoyed all aspects of it, today I do not have a lease, got plenty of places to go for free or without lease fees...Would I get on another deer lease? Yes, if it was the right one..Do, I spend more on the 4 places I can hunt then I would if I had a lease? Yes, by double easily.

The state need to worry about poaching, road hunting, CWD, setting bag limits, etc...they do not need to worry about where a stand and feeder are positioned, nor do they need to worry about antler restrictions in areas where the deer herd will not, never, every get any better without the introduction of genetics. You manage your land, say 3000 acres...you have nice deer, but low fence...you have a 150 class 10 that is 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 years old, your neighbor has 200 acres and hunts it on weekends.....and blam....he pops that deer in the middle of his ranch, on the other side of the fence, or on the far side of his ranch from your fenceline..That is the biggest deer he has ever seen or killed..Are you mad at him? Do you have any control over it? NOPE...it was on his property. Tough stuff that you manage yours and he shoots a buck and a couple of doe a year off his, he is not in it for the long haul of managment, but still he has a nice deer on his wall, and you do not mount the jawbone anyway..and you do not have squat.

Fences ar just what they are...they are borders, the end of a property line, the start of another, the division of land between two pastures, etc........seperate the Smiths from the Jones's so to speak.

Heck I had a lease in S. Texas 500 acres...$2000 7 years ago, and they neighbor had 800 acres...we could talk to each other in our stands they backed up to each other...the landowners had those stand there to begin with, we just supplied the feeders....and they faced opposite of the fenceline anyway. Once, I told the guy in the other stand and just above a whisper, some hogs were coming out behind my feeder and I was going to let them go to the fenceline and then pop one, but would let some get under so he could get a shot too....BOOM,,,,,,,mine drops on my lease, they run and stop by a tree on his...BOOM...he shoots one.....We climb down and he shakes my hand and says THANK YOU....you did not have to do that...I said, well, I knew you have not seen or shot a hog yet and I have....Congrats.


Bottom line about the state getting into this feeder/stand..etc....is silly..The clowns that have introduced it probably hunted somewhere there was a stand and feeder on a fenceline and got mad. OH, I have the power to introduce legislation, I will write a bill....Well, I have to power to vote and voice my thoughts, Sir and you do not get my vote and I will find those that are your constituents and campaign against you.

Hey, if they want to do something silly like that...Why not say this? You can have a stand on a fenceline...however, the feeder must not be where you can shoot and cross the other persons property...aerial trespass........and you may not have window on that stand that functions to allow you the opportunity or chance to shoot across a fence? Lets ge real silly then.

Now, the area about high fences..not going to touch it...States deer, right? Yes, I agree, but for some areas of the state it is more of a business then anything else and they are legal so I will not comment about them..Build them if you have the money, good luck to you and your hunting operation. I will say this, If I had say 2000 acres or more that was my own in S. Texas and the money to do so, you can bet your deer rifle, I would put up a high fence....cause I can.

That is my $200.02 worth

ONCE AGAIN DOSENT IT SEEM STRANGE THAT EVERY ONE WHO PUTS A BLIND NEXT TO A FENCE IS KILLING ON THE OTHER GUYS PLACE?????


In our case, we've actually seen them shoot bucks on our side of the fence on two occassions. Actually been watching the buck when he gets shot and drops on the ground!!! One time, I took the buck to their house and told them that I had rather bring it to them rather than let it go to waste. Of course, they denied it 100%. When I told them I watched them actually shoot the buck, climb out of their stand, walk to my fence line, see me coming and start running and then drive off when they saw me driving over to them, they said they hadn't even been out of their house that morning. They wouldn't even take the buck when I said they could have it anyway. So, I had to tag it and take it.

This doesn't count the deer that we find dead laying just inside our fence line, the gut piles we find on our fence line or the remanants of two deer that were actually skinned and quartered on our fence line!

So, I'm not assuming that they shoot across our fence from their stands that they have tied off to our fence lines,,,, I KNOW THAT THEY DO!!!

I actually climbed up in one of the stands that's tied off to our fence after I found a gut pile on our side of the fence and put this note across the window that looks into our pasture.

"Remember this the next time you get the urge to shoot something on our ranch again.... I'm watching and will shoot back!"

He had a piece of plywood nailed across that window the next weekend.

By the way Steve... You have way too much time on your hands these days. You almost took up one whole page with that one single post.

HAG..I know people do it,,I have sat there and waited an waited and waited to have a buck jump a fence..but he never ever did....so all I could do was watch...but it is the hunter and his moral fiber that is questionable....I have had one deer run and jump a fence and pile up dead on another ranch not 5 yards from the fence.....I called and told them and they said, go get it if you can see it...I did, but I told them, I had a good blood trail from my side and they said...we believe you, you have been hunting there for years....You just have to know the folks that are your hunting neighbors...but then again.....you have guys that tie to your fence, your corner post etc.. I can understand and I would have done the same thing you did....but I might just drive the fenceline all morning and evening calling cattle and ask "have you seen a black steer with the ear tag of #44 in it?" :D

OH, and I am bored....electrician just left and I am waiting on a painter to get here....:)

Then a friend of mine has a lease in Stephens Co, near PK at the edge of S. Young Co....and his stand and feeder have been shot up two years in a row and he is not 100 yards from a fence, but his feeder is even further...

You shoot at me in the stand..then will I am shooting back.. I did have my college roommate get shot at in a tripod, not once but three times...after the second and right after the third he shot back at the front of the truck....they took off....400 yards away from the county road he was and it dead ended..these folks wer road hunting, but told the GW they were sighting in a rifle.....oh on a public road...GW did not give tickets either......landowner would not press charges...so we went out every weekend and took a guest with us...told the guest...you shoot whatever you want and have a tag for....just help us haul a truckload of our stuff on the way home......Heck our guests killed more deer then we did....

On our lease we cant put a stand or feeder with in 200 yards of a fence.As a bowhunter I dont want do that anyway.

I just thought that I could get on a soap box, sir my hat is off to you. By the way TheHag is right you have way too much time and I don't want to see what kind of mood you will be in after you get the bills from the electrician and the painter. As I said elsewhere on this topic, thesde kind of things need to be handled by the lease holders and the landowners, not polticians in Austin. I can understand some folks being in favor of this, but if good manners, common sense, and courtesy aren't enough to keep these folks from setting up like this, how is another law on the books gonna make them change their habits. How many laws are on the books about poaching, have they stopped anything. As JB said earlier you might get something shirt-tailed or coat-tailed on to this legislation that you don't want. What if someone decided that to facilitate better enforcement of these laws, all deer campsx had to be within 100 feet of the main entry gate to the property.

HEY REDNECK! TELL YOUR BUDDY THAT WOULD BE A NICE PLACE TO FEED COWS OR A INSTALL A PORTA POTTY! JB. DITTO'S AGAIN ON THE SHIRT-TAILS! THIS SUBJUCT IS GETTING TO ME. I NEED TO CHANGE SOME THINGS, NOT HAVE A POLITICIAN TELL ME TO. YOU KNOW THERE IS A LAW ABOUT DRIVING DRUNK! BUT THEY DON'T CARE! THEY CAN'T ENFORCE THE LAWS THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW, SO WHY MAKE MORE?

He had a piece of plywood nailed across that window the next weekend

HAG THATS HOW YOU HANDLE THOSE SITUATIONS

DO IT YOURSELF

DONT ASK THE GOVERNMENT TO DO IT FOR YOU

ANYBODY GOT A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES GOOD??????????

i have a small lease and my stand is about 10 yards off the fence line. I put my feeder 150 yeard down the treeline, in the corner of our property. The feeder is about 20 yard from both fence lines. I do look out the window from time to time to see if anything is running across there property heading towards mine, but that is it.
I do have permission to shoot a deer on one side of our property is we saw one. But we are very careful, of our surrounding and what direction we can and cant shoot. I thing that is what is important. I saw that safety was the biggest issue of this bill, but i would like to see an article of where someone got shot , just for being on the other side of the fence. Most of the time you see shooting accident it was cause some dumb a$$ thought it was a deer. If you can't tell by all means don't take a chance. Use common sence not tax dollars. the best idea would be make everyone take hunters ed, and really pass a test. period, no exclusions.....

Heck that shoots 75% of our blinds down. We hunt on a pretty weird shaped place, and most of our blinds are so close to the fence you could throw rocks at it. If this is or becomes a law I will probably be looking for a new lease, or will I, who is going to tell??

matt

I don't think there have been any accidents lately, over someone not knowing what they were shooting at out of a blind. Mandatory hunter ed is an answer, but even with that, how are you going to regulate common sense and manners.

Listening to a talk radio show out of Houston this weekend,the general concensious was it would not pass.

Thanks for the info.

I was scared to log on now,,I figured this would be about 10 pages...

Only if there had been a black panther or a chupacabra involved. I can just see the 6 o'clock news now, our reporter in LaSalle county is going to give you the details on 2 deer hunters shooting each other while trying to bag an unidentified animal that appeared at a feeder on the fence-line of two seperate but adjoining 5000 acre properties. One hunter commented that it looked like a chupacabra, cause it reminded him of a coyote with a bad case of mange. The hunter on the adjoining lease said it looked like some kind of big black cat, but he thought that it had a kilt on.

It sounds like alot of you guys don't think you would be able to get written concent from the adjacent landholder. I'd imagine if you've had your blind or feeder there for a while you wouldn't be suprising anyone unless it's a new landholder, even then you could say your blind or feeder is grandfathered in! Any landowners in here that agree with this besides me? I can see both sides being a landowner and a leasee.
I was a little scared to log-on too, I thought I might need a few hours to read all of the new posts since Friday!

Don't ever worry about logging on, I don't and you don't seem any where near as opinionated as I am. I think the thought that every one is trying to convey, and I could be completely wrong on this, but it is that we shouldn't be regulated in to having to have written permission from adjoining landowners, as to where we can put a feeder or a stand. We don't need laws on the books trying to regulate common sense or manners. How many of us out here hunting white-tails, have actual written permission to kill and remove a deer off of the place we are hunting. Look at the hunting annual, we are actually required to have such permission, I have never been asked by a GW for proof that I have such permission, have you or has anybody else out there. With those proposed laws, we will have to start carrying around a portfolio with all of our permission slips in it. As some people have said, what about archery and some gun hunters that are hunting on 50 to 100 acre places, take out just the proposed 200 ft. wide corridor, and you have dropped their area to nothing. There are probably folks out here hunting places that are long narrow strips, that wouldn't be able to put up either a stand or a feeder. What if your neighbors don't believe in hunting in the first place. No, we don't need any more regulations put on the books, till after they start actively enforcing all of the existing ones. And those are my thoughts on the subject. At least for the moment anyway.

Written consent makes no sense and is not even relevant here. If the law passed, there is absolutely no way that a written statement would do anything. For one thing, a game warden is not going to go around and attempt to spend countless hours trying to figure out whose stand is on whose fence line and then contact them and then tell them to move it. The only way the GW would even be able to attempt to regulate this is by the adjacent land owner calling the warden to his land to go investigate it with him. Since the adjacent land owner didn't want the object that close, where would written consent come into play??? He just called the GW to investigate so there is never written consent.

This is the same for tresspassing. The GW could care less about who is on whose property anyway and the only way to fine someone is for the landowner to say they can. I don't carry around papers on my deer lease saying I can hunt there.

Is written consent just in case the adjacent land owner forgot what his original agreement was and was drunk?? How long is it good for??

For example, I got a dove lease a few years ago and as soon as I started walking down a fence line, the GW pulled up to check me. I asked him if the land I was on was so and so's. He said he didn't know and didn't care. It turns out I was on the wrong field owned by someone else because the map was wrong. I hunted there for 2 weeks not knowing I was on the wrong field.

The bill has way too many flaws and again, is a waste of time.

The ranch we hunt on is one section - 620 acres. It is surrounded on the south and west by a much larger family owned ranch. They and our landowner definitely do not get along. Sometimes it reminds me of the Hatfields and McCoys. If I had to get permission, I know they would not grant it out of spite. So I lose 150 - 200 yards of hunting area on two sides of my lease.

I know...LOL...I figured I typed about an entire page and it might fill up another two to three pages...

NO, I sure hope the person that said they felt it would not pass has the correct pulse on it. Not that I am for feeders and stands right on fencelines, but rather I am against the state telling us what we can and cannot do in certain situations.