Thinking about raising some exotics for hunts. how much land is needed for exotic hunting in yalls opinion. Are land is mostly wooded also.

to sell hunts on or to sell the stock?

we have some axis on our place (300 acres) but its just for personal enjoyment.

to make money on it, i would say you need at least 500 acres and a good line of credit at the feed store

I too was thinking about maybe raising some Fallow Deer, Aoudad or Texas Dall Sheep intensively for sale to game farms. I only have 25 acres but I want to do something with it. I was thinking of dividing the property in four parts, and rotating the animals every 21 days to stay ahead of the life cycle of intestinal parasites. Does anybody use Bufelgrass to feed their animals? Just wondering if that is something to put alot of digestable biomass on the ground for the animals to eat (fairly quickly). They advertise it as being a very productive grass in the worst places. Fourwing Saltbush, Forage Kochia and Winterfat, along with mesquite and Jujube grow well around here (far West Texas) and all should be good to suppliment the diet of the browser/grazers. I was even thinking of making a sort of range cake out of the ground up mesquite and other forages. Im open to any opinions on how to produce animals intensively on a small property....thanks..M

Fallow can adapt pretty well to just about anywhere and on anything. They eat just about anything. The problem is a lot of times it's stuff they shouldn't. Good idea on the rotation. I would still say to take samples in for at least a float test and make sure of your parasite egg count. Any vet should be able to do that for you and it's pretty cheap to get done. As for the cake mix your talking about, I haven't ever tried that. We have several places that are small like the one you are talking about where we raise axis, blackbuck, sheep, and fallow and I would be glad to talk some more with you if you need advice. Just give me a call. 830-263-1139.

Fallow and Texas Dall Sheep will do well in what you are trying to do but not sure about Auodad since they take so long to reach a trophy class animal. They are very productive in that they can triplet for young. Can jump over or go thru an 8' fence if and when they want. Not sure that Bufflegrass will do well for you in West Texas as it is no very cold tolerant. I would check with Turner Seed Co. in Breckenridge about grass for what you are wanting to do. In my opinion it is hard to beat coastal bermuda for what you are wanting to do. Can you irrigate any of it? Almost all exotics will eat hay. So it is an opition if it affordable for you. The range cake idea will work for you. Loose minerals or mineral block will get them what they need in that area also.

If you decide to do it get your stock from someone like Curtis or ones that have been raised in that type of environment. If you get free ranging animals that are not use to human contact you are going to have problems.

Curtis I thank you for your offer for advice and I will definitely be calling you. You know I have spoken to some other folks about intensive culture of exotics and generally I get alot of looks like Im from the moon. I think that if they even know vaguely what I'm talking about, they're more bovine people/traditional ranching types...so I take it with a grain of salt...

But I have a worry. Temperatures here in Presidio County can hit multiple days worth of 110 degrees farenheit in the Summer, though we have only frosts during the Winter. Can the small bodies of Blackbuck Antelope take a few frosty days? Can the Fallows take scorching Chihuahuan Desert temperatures? (We are USDA Zone 7b but sometimes it feels much hotter) Will I have to worry about antelope horns freezing off after a few days of sub freezing weather?

Also, coyotes are just a terrible nuisance here. On 25 acres, if one gets inside the fence line, animals wont be able to use their speed to any advantage. I was thinking of fencing the property in concentric rings, like a racetrack. That way hooved stock could run coyotes around and around without being boxed into a corner. Just a thought...

Finally, can multiple species be kept as a community, say Fallows, Blackbucks and Mouflon-breeds? If there is sufficient food, will I have to worry about um..."trans-species" head butting?

I also worry about poaching and random killing of animals when I'm away. They had some exotic animals, Addax I believe, shot for no apparent reason down in Northern Florida near where I used to live, right through the fence line.

Thanks, I know that's quite a platter of questions. Mike

Ranchhand thank you for the tip on the Coastal Bermuda Hay, I have no experience with it, I have to look into it. Irrigation-that's a topic, sure if I had the money Id be hip deep in tall green grass-- but in my part of the world, tree and bush forages grow easily where grass grows thin, delicately and is easily disturbed by grazing. Anything with a deep agressive taproot (Sweet Oaks, mesquites, jujube, figs, tall persimmons, mountain mahogany, twisted acacia, sweet acacia, Saltbushes) seems to produce the most greenery because it will seek deep water and no irrigation is needed beyond establishing the plant. Also they are starting to use "dimpling" the soil out here to prevent water from running off the property, it helps grass-growing a little. But I think I will probably end up with a shrubby paradise out here. Browsers like sheep, Oryx and Eland would probably like it best out here but those big animals might not like the cramped quarters. PS I hear there is a variety of bufelgrass called "Pecos" which is more cold tollerant. Hope to do some trials of that next year. Thanks again for the info...Mike

Thats a good thought Don, though my instinct would be to go for does/fawns/ewes just off their milk, as being easier to work with. Also I dont know any animal that is totally immune to the idea that its you who are bringing the feed bucket every morning. I know sheep are particularly like that, maybe deer/antelope less so.

With only 25 acres of native browse you are not going to be able to run very many head of any type of animal till you are out of browse/grass. Black Bucks can take cold with shelter from it. I think you are talking about Buffalo Grass and not Buffel Grass. Big difference in the 2. You need to seek the help of the Exotic Wildlife Association in Ingram Texas. As far as stocking rates animals like black bucks, fallow, axis can be stocked at rates of like 5 to 10 head of the species to where you can stock one cow unit. So you will need that much acreage per exotic unit to get by without much feed. You can probably get alfalfa hay in West Texas at a much more reasonable rate than Coastal Bermuda. Just some thoughts for you.

Mike your fallows will handle the heat fine. That species of deer is pretty tough. Some ranches in South Africa raise them with very little problem. They are the equivalant of the goat species in deer and you will be amazed at what those deer can do.

I would certainly lay out your plans on your ranch with how your going to set up trap pens and barns before starting and bounce the ideas and drawing you come up with along to anyone else you find that is experienced in the business. I like lots of brush in my places. the thicker the better. They will usually get used to me driving in there and putting corn out and will stay back in the brush just barely able to see them. Once I leave they are all over it! They are not tame, but they know when I'm putting out food as the routine and will pick up on change very quickly, especially axis. Fallows become more to the gentle side than blackbucks or axis do, in my opinion. Especially the does.

Often I find the same thing doesn't work for everyone and I'm always learning something new in this business. As for the cold weather, I find that the ones that lose animals didn't really prepare to well for it in the first place. They don't put out enough additional feed or the right feed for preping the exotic for cold weather where I feel this can be done with just a bit of time spent, carefull preparation, and commone sense. You have to have low ground shelter(thick native brush) and enough of it for all your population and high ground just enough where water will not gather. You want them to have plenty of dry space to lay down at night. If you don't you will have problems. Especially with a lot of the Africa type of animals if you get into those later on. Blackbucks will handle cold fine, but if its freezing rain type or lots of ice, that is bad. My favorite thing to do is corn, alfalfa hay(horse quality), molasses, and a good barn shelter about 6' high in the back with a north wall. I use regular bunk feeders with stainless tube frame. The 10' ones that you use for cattle. These have worked very well for me and are easy to move. It doesn't need to be insulated or anything. Our barns or shelters are usually about 24' long and about 12' wide. When I know a cold front is coming I will usually rake out the shelter first or go in with my skid steer and clean it out if needed. Put in dry dirt if needed. Put in some coastal hay or maybe some alfalfa hay with it under the barn. Put out corn around the south side of the barn. They will find this and stay in that area when its cold. Our mortality rate is a lot better when I take this amount of care to them and to me, this is just simple stuff to do that is easy and affordable to do. If you can't make a shelter look for other things to get that you can use. I have seen some people use some old, large, metal culverts cut in half and just set out on the ground. Those have reportedly worked well. We have some old concrete culverts from when then reworked the highway in front of our place years ago and they work great for the little blackbucks to hide in when its cold. Just make sure whatever shelter you have, water can drain out of it well and it should work. I like to keep all of mine clean and as the animals will congregate there I like easy access to move it or to get in to clean it if needed. Also with your alfalfa, it is important to watch out for blister beetle. We get ours from up north as generally most of the stuff we find in Texas commonly has that problem. It caused problems for our blackbucks years ago and we lost fawns because of it.

Also in regards to your fencelinea and brush piles. When you clear all that out for your fence line, don't leave the piles of brush around. Burn them or get rid of them. We made the mistake thinking these would be good cold weather shelters. Well they did until bobcats moved in. Once we got rid of them and built the barns, no more problems.

Great tips Curtis, Im committing them to memory. You know I actually have a busted 20' diameter silo cap Im dying to make into a Winter livestock shelter..and I was thinking earth rammed tires to make shelters to catch the SE facing Winter sun. The black might do alot more to absorb heat and radiate it at night, particularly if I could incorporate a transparent plastic roof of some kind.

Thats an awful good recommendation for keeping fallows compairing their hardiness to sheep...good thought about brush trimming and bobcats though I havent heard of any around here lately (Skunks and rattlers are more likely around here).

The only other crazy cost saving measure I have about this relates to how to keep initial fencing costs down. I have 0 fences up at this time. I was thinking of growing a two layer "living fence" by spacing mesquite seedlings grown from seed (free around here) in two rows of 15' with 6" inch spacing between the "bars". I hope to train, bend and prune this living fence as tall as it will go, weaving them like a basket when they are young. I guess its total mature height will ultimately determine the which species I can keep. I will go with the low jumpers first when the fence is short. Most mesquites can average 20-25" easily (more than enough for any jumper) I do believe. The mesquite should also provide pods and browse and shade as well as security. The path between them should be about double wide as an ATV so somebody can do pruning on the inside (or just run a couple sheep through it to keep it chewed down). The only other low cost fencing solution I can think of is a moveable fence. Wish I had a whole lot of land to do this one, but this as I said is my "intensive culture" plan.

Living fence.....hmmm.
OK my concern with that is what are you going to do when they decide that is what they want to shine their sntlers or horns on and get it caught in it. Don't go cheap on your fence. Save up and do it right. Fence wire like Stay-Tite or the like acts like a spring and it is very durable. Don't go with fence that is twp pieces of 4' overlaying. You will be better off with one solid pice of good wire material.

Also keep in mind predators. Coyotes and bobcats won't be kept out or detered any better. It might actually provide cover for a bobcat pretty well. We never saw bobcats until we built our place. The second year it was up we killed 26. Your going provide an ample food source when you do this HF and it will not tske them long to find it. We still kill 5-6 cats a year and about the same with the coyotes.

Also you may want to consider a border type of dog like a great pyrenese or anatolian or mix. Thwy can do well with fallows and especially sheep. Great for coyote control.

Wise advise. You are fencing in an investement right? Animals are tough on fences. If cost is a concern save up and by the wire and cut your own cedar posts off of a friends land. I am sure you can find someone to give you the posts.

I was calling fencing suppliers this afteroon looking for a price on 10' game fencing. Couldn't really get ahold of anybody though. What is a ballpark estimate for this sort of fencing per 100'? Can anybody say? Thanks..Mike

The last time I got a price for 10' game fencing was a couple years ago.....and it was $5.00-$5.50 per linear foot installed.

I have never needed 10' fence. 8' has been sufficient and I think comes in a roll a little over 330' or around that. But if your talking about Eland and such I think your place is probably too small for that anyway. The cost of the fence with the quantity that you could put on there wouldn't be justifiable I would think. With how much those animals eat and on your 25 ac I think your can expect a really high feed bill. With your fallows, sheep and aoudad I think you may do well with just the 8' but it just depends on how thick the brush is inside the place to be sure on the aoudad.

If you're strictly looking to make a little extra money.....I would stick to buying some relatively tame fallow and nothing else. I don't think there's any way you'll be able to raise a breeding population of Eland on that small of acreage. In fact, there probably isn't even enough natural forage to support one adult Eland on your property. Eland typically equal 1.5 to 2 cattle units.

8' fence is plenty for most exotics. Call Twin Mountain in San Angelo and see if they still build fence. With a small place to fence it will be costly. All the corners and gates will eat you alive. It will not cost much to double the size of the pens other than the expense of the wire and posts once you figure what it will cost you to fence/cross fence 25 acres. Have you given much thought to how you are going to catch these animals once you have them? What you are going to get for males vs. females for income? Expenses? You might want to consider sticking your money in the bank in a saving account at .9% interest after you have figured in your time and other things.

I do appreciate the imput from people with prior experience. Im not rejecting of it, and my money is in the bank, but I'm not rich, just a working man, and it is my nature to want to do more with less.

When talking about the costs of traditional fencing it makes me want to go back to my idea of the near 0 cost living fence. Its not a new idea, you can encounter working examples of it in Permaculture type publications. I am still warming to my idea of a mesquite fence, as a biologicallyp-derived solution for containing livestock in the Chihuahuan desert. You know in parts of Africa, native tribesmen, pastoral herders used "bomas" which are essentially corrals made from thorny acacia branches (rather mesquite-like trees) and occasionally from intentionally planted corrals made from Acacias a la the living fence idea. Lions cant get through them, cattle and sheep cant get out.

I am glad to consider the "what ifs", because it's valuable information. When I hear that a stand of mesquite may invite bobcats, I can only think of offering bobcat hunting as another income source to the place. When I hear that some antelope or deer species may get their horns tangled in the fence, I think things like "change species" or simply that on a place as small as mine, I think I would see it if a critter got jammed into a fence and rescue it before it died. I know that there are problems creating enough edible plant material for a population of anything, thats why I like my living fence idea which in fact triples as (1) fencing (2) shade (3) digestable plant matter.

To revisit the idea of bufelgrass (not buffalo grass something entirely different) the variety PECOS BUFELGRASS was developed some years ago as a cold-tollerant verison of the standard (originally from South Africa I believe.) While I havent done any trials with it, if it likes my property, USDA Zone 8a x 12" of rainfall annually with a SSE exposure, that one species could solve alot of my animal's food problems. I am also intent on planting a real diversity of forages for my animals, all natives of real harsh desert environments from accross the planet. I want my animals to be swimming in edible forages: a short list, all good for USDA Zone 8+:

Mesquite, various species
Spiny aka desert hackberry
Winterfat
Forage Kochia
Fourwing and Desert Saltbush
Pecos bufelgrass
Mountain Mahogany
Rubber Rabbitbush
Honey Locust
Apache Plume
Spineless (fairly recently developed) Opuntia
Prostrate Acacia
Acacia Angustissima (a local native--- very palitable)
Acacia Bayleanna
Dahlias
Ficus (figs)
Sweet (low tannin) Oaks
Albizzia lebbeck
Apple Ring Acacia
About five more Zone 8+ African Acacias: Umbrella, Giraffe, Gum
(definitely in the experimental category).
Rhus
Ceonothus

I plan to report on how all these things work out. You see I am not only interested in $ but also I feel that alot of the US Southwest could be rescued from the clutches of creosote bush with better management. I really care about finding a program for turning this part of the world into far more productive ecosystem (as it was about 150 years ago) for wildlife native and exotic. MikeBuck

Well I wish you the best of luck.....but I have to be honest. I don't think this will work at all.