Yep, and your dog will only break 60% of the time. OB is overrated.

You tell 'em!

Ultimately it comes down to what you want in a dog.

You can have a dog that will be unruly in the blind, break on 60% of the birds (endanger themselves by placing them in front of guns - think ear damage!), not handle well (thereby taking 5 times as long or more to get a blind retrieve - disturbing hunting time), blinking birds, won't honor, etc.....

Then by all means, don't force.

I'm open to FF but have yet to come across a dog that where was "needed" to get the desired results.

Point of the story is, some dogs do require FF. However, what makes some dogs not need it is what raises my interest.

A lab goes through a training program and should be a bird dog when they come out.

Ultimately it comes down to what you want in a dog.

You can have a dog that will be unruly in the blind, break on 60% of the birds (endanger themselves by placing them in front of guns - think ear damage!), not handle well (thereby taking 5 times as long or more to get a blind retrieve - disturbing hunting time), blinking birds, won't honor, etc.....

Then by all means, don't force.

I was a field day with a HRC club a year or so back.

There was a guy there that was fairly new just bragging and bragging about how well his dog retrieved. I mean, this guy never shut up about it.

So anyhow, he goes up to the line for his turn. The duck is shot out of a winger about 60 yards away. Dog sits, watches it fall and the owner send her with her name. With all the enthusiasm in the world, the dog turns and jumps on him wanting to play. The guy ends up walking out about 5 yards and acts like he is cheering on his 3 year old for peeing in the pot. He does this the whole way. 10 painful minutes of it. Then when she gets there, she sniffs it forever, picks it up, runs 5 feet and drops. Continually, she is trying to get the owner to play with her. Later in just hanging out he comes by to me and strats bragging about how his dog has never even been force fetched and he said he doesnt think dogs require it . I try my hardest not to laugh at him and walk off.

Point of the story is, some dogs do require FF. However, what makes some dogs not need it is what raises my interest.

For example. Zeke has yet to refuse to get anything I have thrown for him. If he ever does, he will immediately be FF'd. Now, is Zeke a phenomenon? I don't think so. I believe it is because I never gave him the chance to refuse. When he was a pup, 10 weeks old, and he started to come back without the bumper, I would stop him and walk him back to it, nudge the bumper with my foot and turn to walk off.

I think Zeke has just always understood what I want and alot of times we aren't real clear and we send mixed signals that make a dog question what we really want.

Now, is my believe what actually happened or am I just lucky? Who knows. But I think starting young and being consistent allows your dog to understand what you want.

Good Point Nogeese. I look at the hunt test and training this way though: Hunting season is over. If I go to hunt test and run, i get to spend time with my dog, do something i like, and watch him do what he loves. Pass or fail, it's a win-win deal.

Since you can't hunt year round, why not keep playing the game with you bud?

Just another way to look at it.

I was a field day with a HRC club a year or so back.

There was a guy there that was fairly new just bragging and bragging about how well his dog retrieved. I mean, this guy never shut up about it.

So anyhow, he goes up to the line for his turn. The duck is shot out of a winger about 60 yards away. Dog sits, watches it fall and the owner send her with her name. With all the enthusiasm in the world, the dog turns and jumps on him wanting to play. The guy ends up walking out about 5 yards and acts like he is cheering on his 3 year old for peeing in the pot. He does this the whole way. 10 painful minutes of it. Then when she gets there, she sniffs it forever, picks it up, runs 5 feet and drops. Continually, she is trying to get the owner to play with her. Later in just hanging out he comes by to me and strats bragging about how his dog has never even been force fetched and he said he doesnt think dogs require it . I try my hardest not to laugh at him and walk off.

Point of the story is, some dogs do require FF. However, what makes some dogs not need it is what raises my interest./quote]

Every club (whether it be fishing, hunting, knitting, etc) has DB's like that. Guys that have adequacy issues and have to tell everyone how great they are. I've dealt with them, not fun.

[quote=JasonB]For example. Zeke has yet to refuse to get anything I have thrown for him. If he ever does, he will immediately be FF'd.

Good Point Nogeese. I look at the hunt test and training this way though: Hunting season is over. If I go to hunt test and run, i get to spend time with my dog, do something i like, and watch him do what he loves. Pass or fail, it's a win-win deal.

Since you can't hunt year round, why not keep playing the game with you bud?

Just another way to look at it.

The dog should have come out of the birth canal a bird dog. No training can make it something it is not. FF is not going to make a dog love to hunt or love to retrieve.