Forums46
Topics539,329
Posts9,748,356
Members87,157
|
Most Online25,604 Feb 12th, 2024
|
|
|
M1A accuracy
#1369431
04/15/10 04:45 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160
gbeard
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160 |
Does anyone know any tricks for increasing the accuracy of an M1A? I have a loaded version that will barely hold a 3 inch group at 100. I've tried several different types of ammo but get the same results every time.
I've heard that bedding the action will help but the downside is that you will destroy the bedding when breaking down the rifle.
Oh ya, I am using springfeild optics and a 3rd gen mount.
Any help?
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: gbeard]
#1369493
04/15/10 05:05 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,014
Sniper John
gumshoe
|
gumshoe
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,014 |
Flash suppressor alignment is a common cause of accuracy problems with the M1A. Any skid marks on it.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: Sniper John]
#1369534
04/15/10 05:16 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160
gbeard
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160 |
No skid marks that I can see.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: Sniper John]
#1369551
04/15/10 05:21 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,014
Sniper John
gumshoe
|
gumshoe
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,014 |
Another thing I just thought of and not sure how much of an accuracy issue it creates. There is a difference between 7.62 Nato and .308. Both have very slight different headspace specs. And the book chamber pressures are different between the two. If you have not already figured that into what ammo you have tried, you could look at what your gun is chambered specifically for and see if using commercial .308 in a 7.62 Nato chambered gun or vise versa could be presenting an accuracy issue.
Obviously you would want to rule out the obvious or easy fixes before going to something like bedding a stock. Do you have a wooden stock? Which would be more prone to warp. If so, you could try a synthetic stock to see what happens.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: Sniper John]
#1369790
04/15/10 06:40 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,450
TexasTransplant
Pro Tracker
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,450 |
Find the oldest gunsmith you can find who claims to know about M1s. There's a lot of art in that complicated beast. Games with the operating rod and spring tension in particular.
She was only a whiskey maker, but he loved her still.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: Sniper John]
#1370069
04/15/10 08:10 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160
gbeard
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160 |
Another thing I just thought of and not sure how much of an accuracy issue it creates. There is a difference between 7.62 Nato and .308. Both have very slight different headspace specs. And the book chamber pressures are different between the two. If you have not already figured that into what ammo you have tried, you could look at what your gun is chambered specifically for and see if using commercial .308 in a 7.62 Nato chambered gun or vise versa could be presenting an accuracy issue.
Obviously you would want to rule out the obvious or easy fixes before going to something like bedding a stock. Do you have a wooden stock? Which would be more prone to warp. If so, you could try a synthetic stock to see what happens. It has a Natonal Match barrel chambered for .308. .308 is all I have used for paper shooting. I have tried Lake City Match 168 and Hornady Tap 168 and 150's. I have both wood and synthetic stocks for it. Currently it is sitting in the synthetic, but I have shot with both at paper with no noticable diference. Maybe Ill just send it off to smith enterprise and have them work it over.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: gbeard]
#1370733
04/16/10 01:02 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,099
devildog28
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,099 |
The national match is already bedded and has extensive work done. Don't send it to a smith!
I'd let someone else shoot it with good ammo and if it still doesn't group, send it back. SA's customer service is very good.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: devildog28]
#1370800
04/16/10 01:37 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,014
Sniper John
gumshoe
|
gumshoe
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 21,014 |
What devildog28 said crossed my mind too, but did not want to say it because I do not know you or how well you shoot. But since he brought it up. Don't rule out shooter error. I have been to the range and seen some of the nicest looking rifles being shot by persons making every mistake in the book as for shooting form and such.
I spent 6 hours one time on the range one on one with an ex military rifle instructor and the next day using a US model of 1917 in a competition I outshot a whole bunch of highfalutin AR highpower guys. What I learned that day with the instructor improved my rifle shooting and accuracy by 100%.
Even from the bench there are some small mistakes that can lead to that kind of inaccuracy.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: devildog28]
#1370827
04/16/10 01:52 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 234
jds15151
Woodsman
|
Woodsman
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 234 |
The national match is already bedded and has extensive work done. Don't send it to a smith!
I'd let someone else shoot it with good ammo and if it still doesn't group, send it back. SA's customer service is very good. Can you clarify what type rifle it is? As an ex-brown gun firer there is a big diference in a National Match rifle, and a rifle with a National Match barrel stuck on it!
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: jds15151]
#1371003
04/16/10 02:51 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,766
Tactical_Smurf
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,766 |
I can clerify a few things.
He has the M1a Loaded acording to his post, this is a base rifle with NM sights and barrel. Stock should not be bedded and if it was its not now since he has swapped them around.
Honestly this is a list of things I would check first.
Synthetic stock on. If not put it on. Make sure its torqued to specs, call springfield and find them. Make sure your mount is torqued to spec. Make sure your rings and scope is properly mounted.
Toss the Springfield Armory scope, there junk and it could be your problem more than anything at this point. Belive it or not your scope can jump around causing your issues but generally you would notice if this is the case because you will have random flyers.
Trigger needs to be adjusted, from the factory there horrible.
-
Now some questions what range are you shooting ? From a bench ? Standing or Prone ?
-
I will be honest, I have fired both the M21 SWS and the XM25 whitefeather. Both of those are 3-4 times more in price and attention paid to them and I was lucky to get MOA at a hundred yards. So while you should be getting better than 3MOA you should realisticly expect 1.24-1.75 MOA
Certified Glock Armorer - Because my Sig Sauers Don't Fail. "We are prepared to give all of our Tomorrows, for a single child's Today" - Kidnap Rescue Operator
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: Tactical_Smurf]
#1371253
04/16/10 04:42 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,423
NTRP
Pro Tracker
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,423 |
Springfield scopes are known for failures. They have a lot of options that are cool like the bubble levels and stuff, but they break. I would ditch that and try a new scope before I jacked with bedding or anything else.
Sadlak Industries make great AM parts for the M1A.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: Tactical_Smurf]
#1371259
04/16/10 04:44 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,423
NTRP
Pro Tracker
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,423 |
I can clerify a few things.
He has the M1a Loaded acording to his post, this is a base rifle with NM sights and barrel. Stock should not be bedded and if it was its not now since he has swapped them around.
Honestly this is a list of things I would check first.
Synthetic stock on. If not put it on. Make sure its torqued to specs, call springfield and find them. Make sure your mount is torqued to spec. Make sure your rings and scope is properly mounted.
Toss the Springfield Armory scope, there junk and it could be your problem more than anything at this point. Belive it or not your scope can jump around causing your issues but generally you would notice if this is the case because you will have random flyers.
Trigger needs to be adjusted, from the factory there horrible.
-
Now some questions what range are you shooting ? From a bench ? Standing or Prone ?
-
I will be honest, I have fired both the M21 SWS and the XM25 whitefeather. Both of those are 3-4 times more in price and attention paid to them and I was lucky to get MOA at a hundred yards. So while you should be getting better than 3MOA you should realisticly expect 1.24-1.75 MOA agreed
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: NTRP]
#1371475
04/16/10 12:56 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,099
devildog28
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,099 |
I just saw the scope thing.
As far as any models am I right by thinking that the super national match is the only sub-moa M-14?
Where you located? I can shoot it for you to see if there's a problem with the weapon.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: Tactical_Smurf]
#1372100
04/16/10 04:50 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160
gbeard
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160 |
I can clerify a few things.
He has the M1a Loaded acording to his post, this is a base rifle with NM sights and barrel. Stock should not be bedded and if it was its not now since he has swapped them around.
Honestly this is a list of things I would check first.
Synthetic stock on. If not put it on. Make sure its torqued to specs, call springfield and find them. Make sure your mount is torqued to spec. Make sure your rings and scope is properly mounted.
Toss the Springfield Armory scope, there junk and it could be your problem more than anything at this point. Belive it or not your scope can jump around causing your issues but generally you would notice if this is the case because you will have random flyers.
Trigger needs to be adjusted, from the factory there horrible.
-
Now some questions what range are you shooting ? From a bench ? Standing or Prone ?
-
I will be honest, I have fired both the M21 SWS and the XM25 whitefeather. Both of those are 3-4 times more in price and attention paid to them and I was lucky to get MOA at a hundred yards. So while you should be getting better than 3MOA you should realisticly expect 1.24-1.75 MOA Didn't know it was possible to torque an M1A stock??? Im shooting of of a bench with sandbags front and rear at 100 yards. I have also shot it with a Nikon monarch scope with no change in accuracy. I realize that M1A's are not the most accurate rifle in the world (especially the loaded version) but I am just wondering if anyone on here knows any tricks to tune them up a little? Also, it has a NM trigger group from the factory. Do those need to be tuned up too? I am thinking a lot of the problem may be the Gen 3 mount being that I can hold better groups with the iron sights at 100 yards than with the scope.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: devildog28]
#1372105
04/16/10 04:54 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160
gbeard
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160 |
Devildog, I am in the Austin area. It may very well be shooter error but I am not new at this. You can come and try it out if you like.
Last edited by gbeard; 04/16/10 04:55 PM.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: gbeard]
#1372580
04/16/10 08:34 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,099
devildog28
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,099 |
I doubt it'd be shooter error if you're on with your other rifles.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: gbeard]
#1372916
04/16/10 11:46 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,766
Tactical_Smurf
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,766 |
Didn't know it was possible to torque an M1A stock??? Im shooting of of a bench with sandbags front and rear at 100 yards. I have also shot it with a Nikon monarch scope with no change in accuracy. I realize that M1A's are not the most accurate rifle in the world (especially the loaded version) but I am just wondering if anyone on here knows any tricks to tune them up a little? Also, it has a NM trigger group from the factory. Do those need to be tuned up too? I am thinking a lot of the problem may be the Gen 3 mount being that I can hold better groups with the iron sights at 100 yards than with the scope.
Its not possible, I forgot I was talking about an M1a generally when ever I hear of people having issues, it boils down to a losse screw somewhere. So those are the most obvious things I can tell you to check. Even though the trigger is the NM trigger it still needs to be adjusted most times to a lower than factory setting and have any creep removed. Its also a good time to hone everything to make it smoother. Im thinking you mount or scope is the issue, because while there not the most accurate rifle you should be able to pull 1.25" groups out of it as it sits. I don't think the problem is you, if you have been around guns enough to second guess how accurate the rifle is, its because you have put together groups alot better than what your getting now so its probly the gun and those 2 things are the most obviuos. The trigger would help and so would bedding the stock, both of those should be left to someone whom has done them on a M1A before.
Certified Glock Armorer - Because my Sig Sauers Don't Fail. "We are prepared to give all of our Tomorrows, for a single child's Today" - Kidnap Rescue Operator
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: Tactical_Smurf]
#1373065
04/17/10 01:39 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,423
NTRP
Pro Tracker
|
Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,423 |
most of the M1A's I deal with are in JAE-100 stocks which have torque settings....that's all
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: NTRP]
#1373175
04/17/10 02:45 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,766
Tactical_Smurf
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,766 |
lol, any insight here ???
Certified Glock Armorer - Because my Sig Sauers Don't Fail. "We are prepared to give all of our Tomorrows, for a single child's Today" - Kidnap Rescue Operator
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: NTRP]
#1373380
04/17/10 05:50 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160
gbeard
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160 |
Well, I removed my scope today and went out the the range to see what I could do with iron sights from a bench with sandbags. I guess the scope mount was the issue (being that I tried two scopes). Shot with Lake city match 168's at 100 yards from a bench. I think I will purchase an arms mount and a Mark 4 LRT when I can save enough change. Thanks to all for the advice. P.S. There are 2 flyers out of 10 that are off of camera veiw that I aint counting!!!
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: gbeard]
#1373393
04/17/10 06:04 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160
gbeard
OP
Pro Tracker
|
OP
Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,160 |
This group was shot by a friend of mine with his M1A loaded from a bench with bags, also with LC 168's at 100 yards. He has the same Gen 3 mount as I do with a Nitrex scope. Not sure why his works so well and mine did not???
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: gbeard]
#1373582
04/17/10 02:56 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,099
devildog28
THF Celebrity
|
THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,099 |
Well there you go!
Remember that the Marine Corps used the M-14 to shoot at distances of 500 meters with only peep sights. Sometimes keeping it simple works in your favor. Don't shortchange your skill set and rush out and buy the biggest scope you can right away.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: devildog28]
#1373596
04/17/10 03:13 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,604
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
|
duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,604 |
Which Springfield scope do you have? I never had much luck with the gen I's or fixed 6x....
The later Gen III's were very good for us and we never had one fail...
I am thinking you have an earlier one, with the scope switching, but I guess all the others you have could be 30mm too.
|
|
|
Re: M1A accuracy
[Re: NTRP]
#1374685
04/18/10 06:46 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,766
Tactical_Smurf
Veteran Tracker
|
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,766 |
I agree, but was wondering if you had anymore things to check that might be causing the issue.
Certified Glock Armorer - Because my Sig Sauers Don't Fail. "We are prepared to give all of our Tomorrows, for a single child's Today" - Kidnap Rescue Operator
|
|
|
Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, hetman, jeh7mmmag, JustWingem, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, rifleman, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
|