I tumble to clean then size and punch primer, then tumble again to clean primer pcket then I trim and debur them. Then I prime, powder and bullet.

Is this good, or is there some other stuff I should be doing.

Thanks

matt

I size and deprime and then tumble. It cuts out the one step that you do.

RC You'll know you are really infected with "fly poop in the pepper" disease when you start weighing each empty case and discarding those that represent more than a few % difference on both ends high or low...BTDT.
Old timey brass from Rem'Chester was notorius for having totally different specs weight wise even in the same batch.
Just a hint - I would de prime before the first tumble cleaning and use the 2nd inspection to clean the primer pocket.
Are you full length resizing? or just neck sizing brass that has been fired in your rifle at least once before? Neck sizing only will extend the number of loadings a piece of brass will last...unless you are really pouring the powder heavy -then the primer pockets will stretch.

Some of my old 270 loads that I took for granted were "safe?" to shoot in my AV receiver SAKO's got really really sticky in other guns...but then they were as much as WAY TO MUCH over listed book max loads too...and a fresh new piece of unfired brass would only last me 2 & not more than 3 reloads before the primer pockets stretched or I could no longer read the print on the case. head . My first inspection of fired brass started with measuring the dimensions of the brass including the web area just in front of the recessed rim looking for any sign of the case having stretch marks...using a micrometer.

Just be careful experimenting with hot loads and switching components. If you change one single component ...even switching the brand of primer in the same heat range can make a huge difference, or opening a new batch of powder even in the same brand ...you need to back off your max loads at least 2 full grains or more, and tune the load again. A PITA for sure but this'll keep you from eating a bolt or blowing up a gun. Hot loads that work fine in colder weather are also a problem at temps over 65 degrees and you need to be aware of that too in your powder selections - works the same way in reverse for loads you develop in the summer....and super close inspections of your fired brass is the best way to tell what's going inside the reciever when you pull the trigger.
Ron

i do the same a CHC but after i have them loaded i usually throw them back into the tumbler for about 20 min to get all the sizing wax off them.

Is it not good to full length resize after every shooting? I know it may shorten the life of the brass, but I have reloaded some of them over five times already, and that is already enough fore me, but they are still good.

Next question is how do you not full length size, or neck size? I have the speer manual, will it tell me how to do this? And one more question, will it cause problems for me if I reload bullets from two different rifles without full length resizing if they dont get back to the same rifle that fired them the first time?

thanks for the help

matt

Once a case is fire-formed to fit a particular rifle chamber, it doesn't need to be full length sized. It's possible that a neck sized round will fit in another rifle. Try it and see. The process for neck sizing is the same. You just use a different sizing die. When I handloaded, I seated my bullets about .005 out of the rifling. If you get to that point, you'll probably have to load for each individual rifle regardless of like calibers.

As stated before, this is an area where you can get lost in the possibilities. Here's my routine, however anal it may seem to some. New brass of course.

1. Load new brass with predetermined fire-forming load. This load is usually very close to my Fire-formed load. Fire
2. De-cap & Neck-size.
3. Degrease & Tumble clean.
4. De-bur flash hole, from inside with custom made pilot and tapered hand drill (having a buddy that is a machinist is great).
5. Trim cases to length. Usually predetermined, on new load I use the shortest length found in a batch.
6. Chamfer inside & out of case mouth.
7. Degrease and tumble again. To remove any oils from handling.
8. Prime
10. Charge
11. Load

Fired brass, de-primed & neck-sized, cleaned, primed, charged and loaded. And annealed every third loading, unless case mouths split sooner (rare), then all get annealed immediately.

Think of the neck sizing this way. When a shell is fired it expands to the size of the chamber. Immediately after firing it will rebound to slightly less dimensions than the chamber. When you full length size you shrink the case back down to industry specs. This round will, or should, fit any rifle chambered in the caliber. A neck sized round should only be used in the rifle the load was developed for, because the lack of expansion could cause some weird pressures. When you neck size, you are only reducing the size of the neck back to the factory specks. This means that when this round is fired there will be less case expansion, which can be inconsistant, and thus more uniform from round to round. Another factor IS brass life. Any time you move the brass (fire or resize) it will work harden a little bit. Same thing as bending a paper clip back and forth 'til it breaks. You made that metal harder each time you bent it until it got so brittle it broke. Your brass will do the same thing. Therefore the less you move it, the longer it will last. Then there is the fact that over time, when full length sizing, the expanding and and resizing will cause the brass to flow toward the mouth of the case. This will make a case longer each time it is fired and resized. Eventually this case will get too long and have to be trimmed. But this material being cut off is supposed to be down in the body of the case, where it was when it was made. Thin walls and shoulders can result, and thus danger.

This could be taken to the next step, which is wwaayy more anal than even I am. But I have tried it,lol. Take my 7mm08 for instance. It's parent case is obviously the 308, and it is necked down to 7mm right? Yes, but the neck wall is also the same thickness as the 308, or very close to it. I necked down some 308 shells only to discover they were too tight for my chamber after loading. The walls were too thick, the metal has to go somewhere. I then turned the necks to give only a few thousandths clearance from the chamber after the bullet was seated. On these rounds I never had to neck size them. Due to the rebound effect of the brass, they returned to the same dimension they were before seating the bullet. This is nothing new, and I'll take no credit for being the genius that thought this up. It is a technic used by benchrest guys for decades. Most of them use tight chambered guns to begin with.

I know this is way more work than is necessary for a hunting round. I don't do it anymore, just did an experiment to see if my loading skill was to a level to be able too.

Brass prep can be as simple or as difficult as you want it to be. Neck sizing is a good thing though. It has many benefits and can be accomplished very easily. As stated earlier, When you get your full-length die set to go, back it off about a full turn. Run a shell thru it. You should see a line on the neck of the case where the die effected only the neck. Adjust the die so that this line is just above the shoulder of the case. On a tapered case the rest of the die will only contact for alignment, and not actually move any brass on the body or shoulder. Once you get that, lock it down and you are neck sizing. But don't try to fire these rounds through any rifle other than the one that formed this case, it is not a safe practice. And always, to start, reduce your load and work back up. You may even find that loads change completely. But your brass will live longer, and accuracy could improve. It usually does, even if only a little.

I have probably over-answered your question, but there it is,
Jay

Good question about the powder surface coatings...dunno...but always been told to never tumble live ammo to clean them.
Ron

I have never tried tumbling after loading. If I have anything that is still a little dirty after loading, I will use a scotch brite pad and just polish each round a little by hand. I have never heard of any accidents when polishing after loading, but I also don't like the idea of being the first at something. JMO.

Just my opinion, I would never tumble after loading, I think you my change the burn rate, especially on hot loads.

Are you seriously tumbling LIVE ammunition?

Why not just wipe your cases clean right after you resize?

Normally I don't even worry about that too much. I used the Hornady spray lube for the cases when I am reresizing my cases. After I'm done wipe it with a towel and that's it.

i dont thik i would tumble live rounds either....

ive never had a problem w/ tumbling after loading or any signs that it changed the burn rate as i always get consistant groups. CHC i do clean my bigger cases by hand but in my smaller cases i load large quantities so its easier to just put them in the tumbler when im done. i not talking about leaving the in overnight or even several hours just about 15-20 min to get the sizing lube off.

FWIW...I guess my loading sequence is different than every bodies. I de prime and either neck or full length re size fired brass, check the primer pocket, then inspect it for cracks and measurements, trim if necessary, for charcoal buildup and then tumble it clean if needed for the last step as part of my inspection and making a decision to keep or discard the brass....unless something readily evident is observed like a loose primer or cracked neck to begin with...then I squeeze it with a pair of pliers so my trash guys don't freak out.

I usually don't have large blocks of time to reload, and this way I always have fresh brass ready to go when I get the urge to load up some fresh ammo. Old habits are hard to break but this system has served me well.
Ron

psycho0819
Very good post and procedures. Thanks

Another advantage of neck sizing is that you do not have to worry about excessive headspace, which causes premature brass failure (incipient case head failure). Once fire formed a case is a fit to gun chamber. It hardly stretches any more. Neck sizing also reduces bolt hammering against lugs which long term can cause wear and headspace problems. Once brass is fire formed and saved for a particular gun chamber most of the resizing and work hardening of brass is reduced to only neck area with neck sizing only. You will also see the donut-looking ring appear at the base of neck. This ring will also help keep round concentric and center in chamber before and during firing. After several firing of neck sized brass you may find stiff chambering. You may have to set shoulder back on round by doing a resizing again. Best way to determine how much to resize or set back shoulder is back die off of shell holder 1 full turn and size and try to chamber round. If it is stiff chambering keep turning die down 1/8 turn at a time till round chambers easily and go about another 1/16 to 1/8 round down (0.004 to 0.008 inch). This way brass is not work hardened or stretched during firing and there is minimum headspace with snug fit of round.

Quote:

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I am going to try and politely question this. If that is possible"

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JMO
Re: tumbling of live round
I have watched this subject on several reloading and bench rest forums for several years. And I do agree that there is concern with the procedure of tumbling or vibrating live ammo. Most reloaders are using a vibrator for cleaning brass, which is not as hard on round as a true tumbler. Several people on forums work in the ammo industry and state that most all manufacture of ammo tumble loaded rounds in a fine plastic ball media before packaging. This is done for cleaning, lube removal, enhancement /life of brass appearance, and separation of foreign objects before packaging. Some one stated that it was also a spec called for on military small arms rounds for a visual inspection of case and verifying that case was annealed. Then the round goes down the line to another vibrator station for positioning and loading in packaging machines. Then they are trucked, railed, shipped, received, and distributed and sold. Then we haul around in truck till we get to shoot. Who really know what they have been subjected to?

Some of these people on forums work in ammo industry and say the warning is a legal beagle carry over from past era of the early singlebase smokeless industry. The early industry had a very hard time removing and chilling all the sulfuric and nitric acid from the nitroglycerin process used in early single base smokeless compounds. Acids caused deterioration and stability problem with age and temperature. The common answer was to coat powder with deterrent of powdered calcium carbonate. This neutralizes acids and also acted as a burn retardant. The manufacturing procedure changed later to reduce acid with double base and triple base powder and the powder coating has been eliminated for years. To control lot to lot variations in powder blends they now use an accelerate to enhance and control burn rate variations from lot to lot. It soaks into kernel and is not affected by vibration. Those are the chemicals you smell (ether, alcohol, and acetone).
But I do respect the powder manufactures warning that are found about tumbling and try to avoid tumbling or keep tumbling to a minimum, small lots way out behind the BIG wood pile.

Here is a link to a discussion on tumbling and limited test that was run on a few rounds and types of powder but I would not consider it conclusive?


http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/571104925

Brass cleaning:
Don’t use product with ammonia -like BrassO -It leach lead and could cause brass to become brittle.
***If cases have been fired several times you may want to anneal case neck to prevent splitting. You may also want to check case for incipient head separation by using an L shaped sharp dental pick and feeling inside case in front of base or in front of belt. If you feel pick hanging in this area the case is starting an annular stretch point and will fail by separating at this area. Usually also show external shiny annular area in front of base/belt where brass is stretching and thinning. Chuck the lot.


1. If brass is badly tarnished or real dirty: I will pre soak cases several hours fully submerged in solution of about 25% vinegar, a little dish washing soap and 75% water in plastic or glass container. Shake out excess solution and throw in tumbler slightly wet.
2. For cleaning: Walnut shells, citrus based cleaner like orange magic, or commercial media cleaning compound, or very fine rouge powder, and a couple of small rag soaked with lacquer thinner to cut down on dust and pickup dirty particle.
3. Resize, inspect for splits and head separation, trim to min., primer pocket uniforming, flash hole uniforming, chamfering.
4. Polish in tumbler with corncob or white rice and a little Fritz polish.
5. Check flash hole and Prime, sort, and bag for loading later.
6. Brass is cheap and I chuck the lot when I start see signs of weakness/spliting.
7. Clean brass is easier to inspect, and for fun I like to hit those flies when they land on that piece of bacon or cheese I stick to my target.