Range Report – DPMS LR308B, Bushnell Elite 4200, various .308 ammo



I got the DPMS LR308B from Forum member Panther Arms at their store here in Fort Worth. I traded my Weatherby 300 Magnum and some cash for it. It was used with only one magazine run through it. The customer did not like the weight with the bull barrel (9.65 lb) and traded for a lighter model. At first the weight did not bother me, then I put a Bushnell Elite 4200 Illuminated Reticule 2.5-10x50 w/ 30mm tube scope on it and the weight started adding up. Let me say first, my intention was that this would be my “hog gun” so I added the Primos 350 yd red night light… more weight. I was starting to get second thoughts about the weight. Still I liked the balance of the rifle and it just looked liked it would be a good shooter with that bull barrel. I took it out to the hunting lease and sighted it in, broke it in, (more on that later) and attempted to find some ammo that it liked.

First the rifle. The LR308B by DPMS has the 18” bull barrel (RFLR-308B). Mine was equipped with the optional JR Adjustable trigger which broke at 3.5 lbs. The flattop upper is slick, no dust cover, no forward assist, no shell deflector, no sights, has a raised picatinny rail and railed gas block. It has a carbine length full floating handguard with bipod/sling swivel stud. The lower has the A2 buttstock with the trapdoor. Two 19 round magazines were included.
The break-in procedure from DPMS is… “To achieve the best results for accuracy you should clean the chamber and bore after every round for the first 25 rounds and then every 10 rounds up to the 100 rounds. It usually takes about 200 rounds per barrel for optimum accuracy.” I used a boresnake with CLP after every shot up to 25 then every five shots for the next 15.

Second the ammo. I bought four boxes of ammo as a start to see what it liked best. The idea was to use 5 to sight-in and then 5 more from each box for group size and impact point. The ammo I had was the cheap stuff for the most part. The barrel has a 1:10 twist rate and not being familiar with .308’s I chose from 150 Grain to 180 Grain to see if it made a difference…
Federal Power-Shok 150 grain Soft Point (308A)
Remington Express Core-Lokt 150 grain Pointed Soft Point (R308W10) (not real pointy, looked just like the Federal)
Remington Express Core-Lokt 180 grain Soft Point (R309W2) (much rounder nose on these)
Winchester Ballistic Silvertip 168 grain BST (SBST308A)

Well I wasted 10 rounds sighting in until I discovered my scope rings were not tight, my bad, start over. All groups are 100 yards, 5 rounds, clear, sunny, 60 degrees, slight left to right breeze.

The Federal Power-Shok 150 gr SP grouped 1.5”, centered .9” high and .5” right.
Wow, I thought, 1.5” with the cheapest ammo, it can only get better.
The Remington Core-Lokt 150 gr PSP grouped 2.5”, centered .2” high and .9” right.
The Core-Lokt 180 gr SP grouped 2.2”, centered .1” high and .8” right.
The Winchester Ballistic Silvertip 168 gr grouped 2”, centered .1” low and 1.5” right.

The groups were generally slightly right, could have been the wind, and within 1” high or low. But they were not as good as I expected. I don’t pretend to be a sniper but I can shoot MOA from my .223 Weatherby SUB-MOA Varminter. Still a long ways to go for full break-in (200 rounds) and lots of ammo to try.

Next the scope. The scope is the Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10X50, 30mm tube, matte, illuminated dot reticule (not the firefly stuff), European A-4 crosshairs (42-2152M).

If you are not familiar with this reticule the A-4 crosshairs are very bold, this is not a target scope. But it is a hunting scope. The bold crosshairs draw your eye immediately to the center of the scope, perfect for that running hog shot. The bottom and both side crosshairs are thicker until about 3/4th of the way to the center then it drops to 1 MOA. The upper crosshair is 1 MOA thick the whole way. The center of the crosshairs covered the 1” square bullseye on my target. I guess that would make them one MOA thick. The adjustable intensity red dot is beneficial from sunset on into darkness. It runs on one of the coin type batteries and I carry an extra one in the buttstock in case I forget and accidently leave it on. I’m not used to having to turn a scope off. The list of features for this scope is awesome…
Features:
• Rainguard
• Fully multi-coated optics
• Magnum recoil-proof construction
• One-piece hammer-forged tube
• 100% waterproof/fogproof/shockproof construction
• Dry-nitrogen filled
• 1/4 M.O.A. or finer fingertip, audible/resettable windage and elevation adjustment
• 95% light transmission
• Limited Lifetime warranty
This is the best scope I have ever had, which includes Leupold Vari-X III in the same magnification. Very clear!

Conclusions. The rifle worked as advertised, no failures. Loaded, extracted, fired, ejected without a problem. It would be best as a gun used in a stand, but I will use it as I intended, carrying it while hunting hogs. Accuracy is not what I expected but I think it has the potential given a proper break-in and the correct ammo. It seems to handle any weight bullet equally.
The ammo. The cheap stuff shot the best and really 1.5” at 100 yards will kill a hog. But I will keep looking for the perfect ammo. I might even take up reloading again.
The scope. Hands down the best for my intended usage. I can’t think of another scope I would rather have.

There you have it.

I still have 15 rounds of the 2 Remingtons and the Winchester left. I would trade round for round if anyone has a different round to try and would like to see how these do in their .308.

I am still a bit confused on how the 1:10 twist rates handles the different weight bullets. There didn’t seem to be much difference. Any ideas on what should be best?

Heavier bullets need a faster twist. Lighter bullets don't mind a faster twist as long as they don't fly apart when they leave the barrel. With a 1:10, you can shoot anything factory made out of a .308. The optimal weight for a .308 at 1:10 is heavier than you can generally find in factory loads. The small case prevents it from developing enough velocity with low enough pressure behind a heavy round to please the insurance company. That's why a lot of barrels have 1:12 in them. I don't have the formula in front of me, but that maxes closer to the weights people might shoot, with the added benefit that the barrel will last longer.

Don't worry too much about it until your groups come down in size on their own from barrel break in. You can assist or speed that process along with polish but be aware that there are as many opinions about that process as there are about the best overall North American hunting cartridge.

With the heavier barrel, I would expect it to eat 165-175 grain best. Don't shoot anything nice out of it until you hit the 100 round minimum mark the manufacturer specifies.

Also, a friend of mine bought one of those low cost but nice shooting Marlins last summer. He is a bore snake believer and preacher. I ran a regular jag and patch with Butches on it through his barrel and it came out nasty. You might take a look at an actual, chemically assisted barrel clean between rounds versus pulling a snake through it during the break in period.

+1

Heavier bullets need a faster twist ??

Interesting results....I have one of the DPMS AP4s with a 16" barrel and consistently shot 1" groups during break-in. Have around 80 rounds through it and my best group was .75". All were with the cheapest federal ammo I could get. Figured there was not point in trying reloads until it was broken in.

Cleaning during break-in has also been with a bore-snake and CLP.

I sort of expected the 1:10 to like the 165-180's best and was surprised to get the best group (as it were) with 150's.

Anyone familiar with the Otis Lifeliner Gun Bore Liner?

OTIS TECHNOLOGY LIFELINER GUN BORE LINER
It is supposed to work for new or used bores. Is this just another gimic?

Another product I ran across was Tubb's® Final Finish Bore Conditioning Ammo. A box of 20 bullets that are designed to properly break in a new rifle. Any experiences? Another gimic?

Tubb's® Final Finish Bore Conditioning Ammo

I appreciate any input.

What weight bullet did you use?

I have used the Tubb's final finish product and the answer is it depends. If your rifle is shooting poorly due to a rough bore they can help. A Rem700 LSS 30-06 that I used to own cut it's group size in half after using this product. Of course just shooting a rough barrel will smooth it out also, but it takes a lot longer.

Did u check the crown for damage? A small blemish on the crown can sometimes cause a lot of problems.

The 4200's are nice aren't they!

David

Generally 1:10 twist .308's like the heavier rounds better, ie 168g, 175g.

Like the others said, I wouldn't use a boresnake to break a barrel in, jag and patches will keep all the metal shards and other crap out of there. The tubbs kit is supposed to be a good, quick way to break in a barrel.

I have Remington R-25 .308 and it likes Hornady 155gr A-Max Match rounds, it will shoot .5 inch groups or less with that ammo. I also do my own handloads on the side, and they will shoot even tighter than that. Actually shot a .5 inch group at 200 yards with it. And really the R-25 is just like your DPMS but with a 20 inch barrel. So if your looking for a tighter group, give the Hornady's a try. Also stay away for the Hornady TAP 168 gr, they look the same, but in my experience, they did not perform as well in my firearm, but who knows, each gun is different.

It's amazing how picky guns are about what bullets they like. It's like women and shoes, they really like some but get all bent out of shape if you buy them other ones.

Very true. I have been surprised that cheap, common ammo shot better or as well as high priced match grade. I love it when cheap stuff works good

On the cleaning, why do people pay 1K for a gun then under 20 dollars for stuff to clean it ? Not singling you out OP just asking the whole group.

I paid almost 100 dollars for cleaning stuff for my gun.
When I purchased my R25 before I fired a round I purchased.
Sureshot Bore guide for AR-10 to clean form the breach
Shureshot 36" coated cleaning rod and jag
.308 Bronze brush and 5 swabs (when they turn gray they go in the trash)
CLP foaming solvent as recomended by DPMS and lube

You might try finding some M118 which is a 175gr SMK BTHP suposedly they shoot really good out of the guns Im not done breaking in the barrel so I havnt spent the money on them yet. In fact Im doing all the break in with a REd dot, I havnt even messured the first group and I have 50rds down the tube. I dont plan on starting till I get another 50rds down here either.

I'd suggest trying another mid size bullet like the 165 Sierra Gameking. You might just get that sub-moa group.

How would you rate the bull barrel for carrying on a hunt?

You say you shot 1 round and cleaned with a bore snake. This really does not get the copper out very well.
Being a bull barrel, it probably is not chrome lined, and will have some rough spots in the rifling.
The solvent and brush get the copper out. I used JB Bore Paste after shooting/breaking in my Tikka,
groups still shrank and had less copper build up.

Thanks for all the feed back...

A couple of recommendations on Tubbs, I may give that a try. I thought it would be good to break the barrel in faster (and cheaper) than firing 200 rounds.

There does not appear to be any damage to the crown, it does have a recessed crown.

On the boresnake, I got it because it was fast, not because it was cheap (which I am). I cleaned after every shot, so I did not figure there would be any cumulative build up. I ran it through tree times after every single shot for the first 25. After the five shot strings I ran it through five times. It has it's pluses and minuses. Plus - the snake, run it through one time and it cleans better than running several patches through. Minus - the brush, you can't really give it a good scrubbing one pass at a time. This was just the procedure I used while at the range, once I got it home I gave it a scrubbing with all the regular stuff.

Match bullets, I'm sure I could better groups using match bullets, but I am really looking for a hunting round for hogs and I don't feel like match bullets would hold together for that. I'd much rather have a 1" bullet that penetrates than a half inch bullet that explodes on impact. How do GameKings stand up to hogs?

I may have been premature in expecting better groups before proper break-in. I think I will just find something cheap to run through it until break-in. One of the rounds previously eliminated may turn out to be the perfect round after break-in.

The bull barrel is heavy, but I decided to just man up to it and carry it for the hunt, it's not that bad. The bull barrel is 4140 chrome moly steel.

Thanks again.

G, I'd consider the 165 GameKings or 168 matchkings as mentioned above... pricey at $35 a box, but dang good stuff...

Yes. First I'll post some info from Shilen:
.308
- 8" for bullets heavier than 220gr.
- 10" for bullets up to 220gr.
- 12" for bullets up to 170gr.
- 13"* Ratchet rifled 4 groove
- 14"* for bullets up to 168gr.
- 15"* for bullets up to 150gr.
- 17"* for bullets up to 125 gr.
http://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html

Now here's why.
http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellb.htm#stabilize has a nice little blurb with the formulas for calculating twists and dealing with different types of bullet designs.

In general terms, part of the key is that any two bullets made from the same material with the same ogive but of different weights must also be different lengths. Longer bullets are more easily affected by the destabilizing effects of manufacturing imperfections and wind. Why? For the same reason that an 18" wrench is easier to turn than a 12" wrench: length means forces exerted on the ends of the bullet have more leverage against the center of mass. Higher spin reduces destabilizing effects gyroscopically.

There are cases where bullets of the same weight have different lengths such as when one is a round point and the other is a spitzer point. For a specific material, the formula will specify a higher twist for the longer round of the same weight. In fact, the formula doesn't actually take the weight of the bullet into consideration, only its specific gravity (based on what it's made out of) and its length.

Looks like another .308 that sprayed Remington Core-Lokts all over the paper. I had a DPMS LR308 and it did the same thing with the Core-Lokts. I sold it and bought a Savage 10 .308, again all over the paper. I was thouroughly dissapointed in the rifles until I started running 168gr. hand loaded ammo.

I understand you were trying out different ammo and using cheap ammo to break in the barrel. I did the same thing with both rifles. Save that brass and load some of your own! After the barrel is broke in do some experimenting with different powders and their corresponding powder weights to find out what the rifle likes. I just did that with 3 different powders and 3 different powder weights for each equaling 9 combinations times 3 rounds each totaling 27 rounds. Some were shooting all over the paper and some were almost 1/2 MOA.

I recorded the results and several days later compared the FPS estimates in the Sierra manual. That revealed that my rifle likes the 168gr. around 2500-2600 fps. I am only buying boat tail bullets. Yes Match Kings and Game Kings can be viewed as pricey but they do perform well.

UPDATE. After doing a thorough cleaning on the LR308B, everyone that said the Boresnake is not the right tool was absolutely correct. The bore was filthy. After using copper solvent and bore brush it is back to where it should be. I am going to try and get out and test the ammo again with five shot groups and clean with a bore brush after each shot. I am expecting the groups to improve considerably.

I've got a hog hunt with Matt at 4 Pines Ranch ( www.4pinesranch.net ) lined up for the end of March so I should be ready to do some major population control by then.

I got another box of ammo, Fiocchi 150 Gr. soft points to add to the mix. Anyone had any experience with Fiocchi?

I've only used fiocchi in my .223 ar and it loves them with the 55gr vmax bullet. I shoot a bolt action 308 and I like the results hornady ammo has given me. Try it out

I've only used fiocchi in my .223 ar and it loves them with the 55gr vmax bullet. I shoot a bolt action 308 and I like the results hornady ammo has given me. Try it out

I've used Fiocchi in my bolt action .308's and the R-25 I used to own. It shot decently well, but not as good as the 150gr. Hornady SST's. I've yet to find a hunting round that shoots better in my Savage, Tikka, or the R-25 I had...

One that really surprised me on accuracy with the R-25 was the Wolf Gold (brass cased), 150gr. soft points. The grouped better than the Fiocchi and the Winchester silvertips...

the best way to do this is to buy you 2 boxes of the winchester 147 gr fmj ammo, wet the receiver parts down with a good lube and shoot it. take it home clean it real good then do it again. then start shooting for groups. this is what I did and the cheapest ammo will group within 1.5" good reloades will do .75" I have the exact same rifle as OP

I have only shot reloads thru my AR. DPMS obviously has already voided my warranty. I've only put maybe 40 rounds thru it w/ very good results.

I'd also recommend you take the cleaning supplies you used once you got home w/ you. You found out that the boresnake only gets the powder out. It's NOT used for deep cleaning like you need for breakin' in a barrel (as you've already found out). I wouldn't think that you can't achieve better results this next time.

I'd also try some 165 or 168gr bullets. BTW, match bullets aren't just going to explode like you think. They are harder than any soft-point bullet you're shooting. FYI, match and FMJ are somewhat similar, but not the same by no means. Match are more consistant in all dimensions and FMJ's are flat-out tough as nails.

What kind of rest are you using?