Had two calls for my tracking dogs this weekend. First was a deer that had two legs blown off. Track only went about half a mile and ended with a heck of a fight...actually more fight than I like to see them in.

The second was interesting. I know the guy pretty good, and he is a hunter. Shoots well, takes only responsible shots that are within his capabilities, and generally exercises common sense. I always ask some basic questions when I get a call just to get a feel for the situation, and how likely I think a recovery will be, and I will have to say that his answers didn't inspire confidence, and if I hadn't known him I probably would have declined. He tells me the shot was a bit under 120 yards, standing still, no obstructions. When he shot the deer lurched back a bit, gathered himself and bolted into the brush where he followed it's progress by eye for about 80 yards until he lost sight of it. When he examined the hit site, there was not blood, just a couple small pieces of meat. I'm thinking he's just muscle hit, and this is going to be a long fast track with a fight on the end of it...not the sort of thing I crave on a Sunday morning with only 4 hours sleep. When I get there, and size the situation up it is exactly as he described. I tell him of my doubts, but turn the dogs to the track just to see. After about 120 yards the pups show me a strong blood trail...out of the clear blue, zero blood before. After another 100+ yards, poof...blood is gone just as suddenly as it appeared, but the dogs are still trailing, and seem pretty confident. Less than 100 yards later though they start casting, wider and wider, and I tell my buddy "they lost him". We watch them hunt a little farther out when the dog's nose buries back in the ground and he starts frantically working a tight circle, clearly having rediscovered the scent, but having trouble making sense of it. I watched him for a couple of minutes and think he has found wind-blown scent (did I mention the wind was blowing really hard). The gyp is the better wind dog so I get her upwind of the dog and send her, she goes about 40 yards, and starts that high hopping that dogs do when they have the scent in the wind. I tell him she's got him now, and she did. Dead deer, and while the hit was about 1 1/2" below ideal, I didn't think there was any way it missed the heart. We gutted him, and sure enough the bottom of the heart is blown off. This deer was found dead 486.3 straight line yards from where he was hit, and he didn't travel straight, so it was over 500 yards...shot through the heart.

In my experience, deer shot in the lungs die quicker than when shot in the heart. Just my experience, not scientific.

Dang!

yep... shot one last season w/ a 300wm tight behind the shoulder (no heart left).... sucker went 200yds but atleast there was a blood trail a blind man could follow.

My bro shot one a few years ago w/ the same gun (Q: why the same gun? A: B/c I am an idiot) square through the shoulder.... 4 hrs later and 2 loads of buckshot and a fixed blade gerber and the buck gave up the ghost. (and during all this, that big sucker went straight down and up a bluff bank creek).

There was a study done at A&M that concluded that deer when shot through the heart still have enough oxygen in the blood stream to run flat out for 16seconds....now think how far a deer can run in 16seconds.....LONG LONG WAY!

ROCKINU>>>>>>What caliber was that deer shot with????

No no guys,you got it all wrong.There's some guy on here claiming if you use "the right bullet" a deer will drop in it's tracks if you hit it in the heart or lungs. The only way a deer will drop in it's tracks is if the bullet(or arrow)hits the spinal cord or brain.

Swampy,

I resemble that remark.

Take it easy, it is just a discussion of opinion that vary.

I believe you mis quoted me. WHat I said was.

I grew up using .222 50gr hp to hunt deer with and they would shatter inside the animal. shot 18 deer in a row and only had one run about 20ft. I have also shot many deer with large bullets that punch a hole through the other side and the deer will run 50 to 100 yds. It is my belief that penetration can be overrated at times. Bullet placement and internal trauma is more important.

I never said anything about a heart shot either. I prefer double lung shot actually. I have seen many a heart shot deer run a long way.

Lets get the facts straight.

Thank you for disagreeing with me as I respect your opinion and I value everyones opinion.

What caliber was this guy using? Just would like to know. I have only one deer run a ways (200 yrds) without bleeding. I shot him with a .270 right throught the shoulder and the bullet didnt exit. In this case the bullet was a .270 PMC eldardo hollow point boattail in which I will never fire again. Bullet did its job and never left the chest cavity making a real hard track. My buddy stumbled upon the deer after thinking made a clean miss!

Ok ok.

Wow!

This all started when I tried to share info on a post to let everyone know about some highly accurate and economical 110gr .308 ammo that I found.

Then someone said that it may not have sufficient penetration to kill a deer properly and it became a discussion. I stated that I believed a 110gr .308 hollow point could drop a deer in its tracks as I had shot many deer with a 50gr .222 that ran nowhere. No that doesn't make me an expert but i felt I should qualify my statement. I am not against exit wounds. I think they are great. I also think that if penetration where the only factor then we would all be using full metal jacket ammo to hunt with and obviously that would be a mistake. I wanted everyone thoughts on this as I knew opinions would vary. This was not a personal attack on anyone.

Let's just have a friendly discussion please.

.270 core-lokt bullet

Well, I'm not an expert or anything, but I have shot quite a few deer, and I have seen plenty drop in their tracks that were shot through the heart/lungs, so I guess a CNS hit isn't the only way to do it. The again I guess that depends on what you mean "drop" sometimes they flip over backwards, or other dramatics, but the end result being DRT.

I agree. I shot numerous deer that dropped without taking a step, none of which were shot in the spine or brain. I can only presume what he means is that the only way to guarantee a deer will drop in it's tracks is to hit the spine or brain.

Me too. I've shot probably 25 or more deer that dropped in their tracks that I didn't hit the spine. Some were just double lung, some took out one or both shoulders.

Face the fact folks. You can make a great shot with a reliable bullet and heavy caliber, do extensive deadly damage to the animal and still have it run a long way. They are tough. Sometimes incredibly so. The key is putting in the effort to find them.

I shoot my deer through both shoulders if possible. Don't care if it's a trophy buck or a doe. To me, I'd rather give up 1/2 a front shoulder (exit shoulder..sure I lose a SMALL amount on the entrace shoulder) than risk having to track deer. Plus, In MY opinion, is a fast quick kill. 99% of my deer have been DRT.

It's easy to shoot through both shoulders and miss the bone, and it becomes just another double lung shot, except you've wasted a lot of meat. The shoulder on a deer is just the intersection of 2 very small bones. Now, higher up, you have the scapulas, but if you shoot thru them, and the deer falls, it's probably because the bullet passed close under the spine. You can get the same instant drop effect by shooting behind the shoulder and high up.

Don't want to get into an argument here. I don't shoot factory ammo. I shoot a VERY hot load with the bullet that IMO performs the best for my gun accuracy wise and expansion/penetration wise. It turns the thoracic cavity into soup. I get to deer hunt ONE time a year, usually for two days only. I don't have time to spend on tracking a deer that I made a perfect behind the shoulder shot on that ran. I also process my own deer the majority of the time and there is plenty of the front shoulder on the exit side that is salvageable, it's just going to be ground anyways.

Sorry guys,I aint buying it. Can you tell me what the physical reason would be for a heart or lung shot deer to drop without taking a single step would be? It's already been well documented deer can run quite some distance even with a direct hit to the heart.It's just a bunch of schoolyard bragging "my gun is more powerful than yours" BS.Been listening to it for years. If someone can post a video of a deer dropping in its tracks with proof it wasn't a spine or brain shot,I'll eat my words. And wasn't you matteo I was referring to,it was some other guy.

OK.

I feel better now.

How about everyone else?

Swampy,

WHat would constatute proof to you that it can be done? I mean after the video of it taking a dirt nap, what needs to be done to satisfy?

Thats the problem Core-Lokt is a terrible round. PERIOD. I have see so many deer run off from being hit with those round. Mainly with .270s and 30-06's. All the deer that I have shot with my 180 gr Patrition Golds have dropped within 5-10yrds of the shot. I have taken 2 bucks and a doe that have dropped in their tracks and not taken more than a step and were DRT. They were all shoulder shot.

Not saying that its the miracle round but I have had great success with it. Its getting hard to find though.

swapthang are You serious, I've shot several deer with my .270 that dropped, didn't even kick. I almost always shoot in the shoulder. My son dropped a spike he shot with a .223, hit it in the shoulder, killed it graveyard dead!!!! didn't even flinch.

I have always shot Core-Lokt .207 130 grain and have never had any problems. I usually kill 2 deer a year and many many hogs.

What factroy round has these bullets....i only shoot factory rounds. I am willing to give them a try if i can afford them!

LOL, you must be trying to get a rise out of us. I've shot numerous deer in the lungs that dropped at the shot. But just watch the Versus Cable network shows. You can see it on there quite frequently. I've even seen arrow struck deer drop when just hit thru the lungs.

Guys you're not answering my question.What would be the physical reason for a deer to collapse without taking a single step? I've shot over 40 deer and the only ones that collapsed without taking a single step were ones that were hit somewhere along the spinal collumb,that includes the neck. All others ran at least a few yards before expiring.

Almost every deer I have ever shot fell DRT, and I rarely take anything but a heart lung shot. This is my son shooting a .243 at 160 yards using 100 grain power points.

Here is the proof it is not a spine or brain shot.



And here is the video.

http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii247...nt=MVI_0083.flv